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Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

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Old 04-19-2012, 08:37 PM   #91
Sean Dunston
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Re: Cal Strength Does "Regular" Grace

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Originally Posted by Katherine Derbyshire View Post
What's your Fran time?

I don't know you, I don't know what you can do. But I've personally watched a guy with a 600# squat get crushed by Fran. Precisely because the weight *was* so light, he ripped through the first 21 thrusters like he was moving PVC. Same thing for the 15 thrusters. But then he just. couldn't. breathe. Strength endurance was totally not an issue for him, but the cardio intensity was.

Katherine
OMG.
did you really just ask him what his Fran time is?

i think it is time to lock this thread or put it in the bucket.
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Old 04-19-2012, 08:37 PM   #92
Katherine Derbyshire
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Re: Cal Strength Does "Regular" Grace

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Originally Posted by Jacob Tsypkin View Post
Dependent on the lifter. Jon is super efficient: his best clean is 200 from the floor, best back squat is 227, for 88%. Donny, on the other hand, has cleaned 215 (I think) from the floor, with a lifetime PR of 301 in the back squat, for 71.5%. Both lifters have cleaned more from the blocks (225 for Donny, 205 or 210 for Jon.) I don't know about other top level lifters in the U.S., but I feel confident that there isn't really a common trend of U.S. lifters being more strong or more efficient.

Note: these numbers are from memory. I could be off, but generally my memory serves me well.
I'm guessing these numbers are in kilos?

Katherine
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Old 04-19-2012, 08:42 PM   #93
Katherine Derbyshire
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Re: Cal Strength Does "Regular" Grace

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Originally Posted by Sean Dunston View Post
OMG.
did you really just ask him what his Fran time is?

i think it is time to lock this thread or put it in the bucket.
I was being snarky. But the underlying point was simply the same as Rebecca's. Being able to do a lot of reps at a particular weight is not the same as being able to do them *fast.*

Katherine
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Old 04-19-2012, 09:00 PM   #94
Bill M. Hesse
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Re: Cal Strength Does "Regular" Grace

This thread got big fast, I am getting in before the lock down!
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Old 04-19-2012, 09:20 PM   #95
Jacob Tsypkin
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Re: Cal Strength Does "Regular" Grace

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Originally Posted by Katherine Derbyshire View Post
I'm guessing these numbers are in kilos?

Katherine
Ha, yes, most definitely kilos.
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Old 04-19-2012, 09:41 PM   #96
Chris Mason
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Re: Cal Strength Does "Regular" Grace

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Originally Posted by Donald Lee View Post
Westside folks tend to do a lot of work capacity/strength endurance work, which most Olympic lifters tend not to do all that often. That changes things a lot when talking about 1-RM translating to 30-reps and such.
Not me . I simply don't have the time.
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Old 04-19-2012, 09:43 PM   #97
Chris Mason
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Re: Cal Strength Does "Regular" Grace

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Originally Posted by Katherine Derbyshire View Post
I was being snarky. But the underlying point was simply the same as Rebecca's. Being able to do a lot of reps at a particular weight is not the same as being able to do them *fast.*

Katherine
Did you watch the video of me pulling 50 something reps in the dead with 225 lbs? I think that was pretty fast. In fact, faster than 99% of the CFers out there...

And no, when I did it I never trained with high reps.

And yes, I could do even more now at a higher body weight.

And no, I don't want to, because my *** burned so bad I could not sit or stand for about 10 minutes after I did it...
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Old 04-19-2012, 10:14 PM   #98
Donald Lee
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Re: Cal Strength Does "Regular" Grace

Chris,

I'm curious what rep ranges you use for your RE method work. Do you mostly keep it to isolation-type movements?
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Old 04-19-2012, 10:20 PM   #99
Jordan Derksen
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Re: Cal Strength Does "Regular" Grace

So this will probably lock the thread for sure but I sifted a few pages back (seriously... this was at 2 pages at lunch) and saw you guys talking about back squat / clean % and I'm curious.

Question for Chris: Rip (I'm getting banned for sure) just posted an article on how Oly lifting is not conducive to building strength but rather allows increases in overall expression of power to a point (hence the fact that some people get some stimulus out of them for a little while when learning them; I did for a time before stagnation set in) and then if you stop strength increases in the big lifts your Oly lifts will eventually stagnate. I believe I've seen Welbourn mention the same thing about how Oly lifts are an expression of power and strength but aren't that great for making you strong. I was wondering as a PL what you thought about all that? I know westside does some power snatching here and there but hardly ever or it's used as assistance maybe? In my own knowledge even if you remove all the drugs that everybody gets accused of taking the Russian and Chinese lifters are still doing a good amount of base strength work to get strong. I know chinese lifters actually do almost full bodybuilding routines and from what I've seen of Russian lifters they're always doing a lot of strength work. Even locally (I know, Canada ain't got crap) when I lifted at my University all the best lifters had come from previous strength or bodybuilding backgrounds while the lifters brought up from a young age in Oly lifting honestly weren't doing that great.

You can PM me if you don't want to hijack the thread... I may have just done that though. What would be really cool is if Glenn could comment on that as well, being an Oly coach whose coaching some great lifters.
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Old 04-19-2012, 10:32 PM   #100
Katherine Derbyshire
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Re: Cal Strength Does "Regular" Grace

Pretty much every olympic lifting program I've seen includes boatloads of front and back squats. Many also include presses and pulls. The idea that olympic lifters don't care about getting stronger is ridiculous.

With that said, big squat numbers don't earn medals. Given that training time and recovery ability are finite -- especially for clean lifters -- there's a necessary tradeoff between building raw strength and working to express that strength through technique. If your squat goes up but your clean doesn't, you haven't actually accomplished much.

Which is the fundamental difference between weightlifters and powerlifters. For powerlifters, deadlift, squat, and bench press are competition lifts. For weightlifters, they are assistance work. Different goals, different programming.

Katherine
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