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Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

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Old 08-18-2009, 08:57 AM   #21
Katherine Derbyshire
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Re: Idea on volume of workouts

How are your times? The question is whether you would get more benefit by doing more, or by hitting what you're already doing harder.

Katherine
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Old 08-18-2009, 01:15 PM   #22
Donald Lee
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Re: Idea on volume of workouts

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Originally Posted by Steven Low View Post
Donald

I agree with your training volume analysis

I think you're overestimating the glycolytic system. Our bodies start delving heavily into oxidative after 30-40s at high intensity (see sprinting). With a heavier stimulus such as weight at high intensity like Fran you'll be insanely oxidative compared (even in the 2-3 min times). Well, in context it will stimulate both glycolytic and oxidative similarly. Something longer is going to be more oxidative biased of course.
Glycolytic capacity cannot be improved much through training, so I wouldn't spend too much time trying to develop it. Plus, glycolytic adaptations take away from oxidative adaptations.

To optimally develop oxidative capabilities, you need to focus on it. For example, you could do a couple intervals of 20 minutes on a Versaclimber at a HR of about 10 beats/min below your lactate threshhold separated with 10 minutes of rest or so. Similarly, you could do heavy rucking in such a manner.

Saying Fran can optimally train your oxidative system is like saying a workout of running 800 m as fast as possible is enough. Of course, I know it's a bit different because of the muscles involved, but I hope you get the point.

If you competed in something that required a mixture of the energy systems, then you'd start to bring that together closer to the event.
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Old 08-18-2009, 05:37 PM   #23
Steven Low
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Re: Idea on volume of workouts

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Originally Posted by Donald Lee View Post
Glycolytic capacity cannot be improved much through training, so I wouldn't spend too much time trying to develop it. Plus, glycolytic adaptations take away from oxidative adaptations.

Agreed

To optimally develop oxidative capabilities, you need to focus on it. For example, you could do a couple intervals of 20 minutes on a Versaclimber at a HR of about 10 beats/min below your lactate threshhold separated with 10 minutes of rest or so. Similarly, you could do heavy rucking in such a manner.

Depends on level of ability. Beginners and intermediates are better off working more intense intervals than sub-lac threshold work at high volume IMO. A transition of course is needed eventually to be advanced/elite endurance

Saying Fran can optimally train your oxidative system is like saying a workout of running 800 m as fast as possible is enough. Of course, I know it's a bit different because of the muscles involved, but I hope you get the point.

Except I didn't say that

If you competed in something that required a mixture of the energy systems, then you'd start to bring that together closer to the event.
Of course.
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Old 08-18-2009, 09:04 PM   #24
Donald Lee
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Re: Idea on volume of workouts

I think we will just have to agree to disagree.
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Old 08-19-2009, 11:37 AM   #25
Scott Spencer
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Re: Idea on volume of workouts

i was thinking of another example. ONe of the top guys, cant remember his name, does O-lifts, heavy squats/lifting and sprints as his training. He throws in some metcons here and there.

His routine would be mainly heavy lifting with sprints. Which is CFSB with CFE but less metcon work. It works for him. Individual reults may vary.

I think a good point is that you (meaning me) might not be able to do all three at a high level. Stregnth focus, endurance focus and Metcon focus. For a beginner you would start with just focus on one. Probably strength or metcons. Then as you become more advance you can focus on 2 at a time. aka CFSB or CFE. When you become a fire breather like Mikko you can do all 3.

I think the best plan might be to periodize it. For me, one cycle of just WOD from mainsite, then maybe CFSB for a cycle, then back just WOD, then endurance.

I think a year break up could look like this:
(the number represent the number of workouts being focused on)

1-2-1-3-1-2-1-3-1-2-1-3

So that might look like this:
WOD (mainsite)
CFSB
Wod
CFSB+CFE
wod
CFE
wod
cfsb+CFE
wod
CFSB
wod
CFSB+CFE

or something like this: 1-2-1-2-1-3-1-2-1-2-1-3

wod
cfe
wod
cfsb
wod
cfsb+cfe
wod
cfe
wod
cfsb
wod
cfsb+e
wod


I consdier CFE and CFSB as a double workout. You do a Metcon and additional work on something else. Maybe you could also do 2-3 months of one focus and the switch back to another.
wod
cfe
cfe
wod
cfsb
cfsb
wod
cfsb+cfe
wod

but i'm rambling. Just getting some ideas out of my head.
The main thing to remember is to workout consistanetly and with intensity. Do that 4-6 times a week with CF format and you'll get better. I'm just trying to figure how to focus and not kill my results. Doing too much at a time would just lead to over training. So it has to be cycled.
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Old 08-19-2009, 01:22 PM   #26
Donald Lee
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Re: Idea on volume of workouts

If you want to learn how to periodize in such a manner, read "Block Periodization" by Issurin. You could also read "Ultimate MMA Conditioning" by Joel Jaimeson for an easier read.
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Old 08-19-2009, 02:30 PM   #27
David Meverden
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Re: Idea on volume of workouts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Spencer View Post
i was thinking of another example. ONe of the top guys, cant remember his name, does O-lifts, heavy squats/lifting and sprints as his training. He throws in some metcons here and there.

His routine would be mainly heavy lifting with sprints. Which is CFSB with CFE but less metcon work. It works for him. Individual reults may vary.
Josh Everett has described his training like that. He didn't do so well at the games this year (his middle of the pack showing on the sandbag hill sprint really surprised me), but he is a damn strong and beastly guy (3rd place in 2007 and 2nd place in 2008 CrossFit games).


Scott, have you read the article by Greg Everett (a coach unrelated to Josh Everett) entitled "Plandomization"? http://www.performancemenu.com/artic...ty&shortyID=53 (WFS)
It's more a general discussion on the need for specific goals and non-randomized training within a CF frame and won't address your specific questions about block arrangement, but I think it's a good article that may interest you.
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Old 08-19-2009, 07:04 PM   #28
Scott Spencer
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Re: Idea on volume of workouts

thanks dave for the article and Josh everett name. i was having a major brain fart.
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Old 08-19-2009, 09:12 PM   #29
Steven Low
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Re: Idea on volume of workouts

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Originally Posted by David Meverden View Post
Josh Everett has described his training like that. He didn't do so well at the games this year (his middle of the pack showing on the sandbag hill sprint really surprised me), but he is a damn strong and beastly guy (3rd place in 2007 and 2nd place in 2008 CrossFit games)
From what I heard Josh dropped one of his bags.

When you screw up in a race (sprints) badly you don't really try to finish up as fast as possible... you just mosey your way to the finish.

Basically, even if he had picked up his bag and finished ASAP he probably still couldn't have made up the difference by that much seeing even as how Khalipa came screaming back (winning and finishing high) he was still 20+ points or so away from medal contention.
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Old 08-25-2009, 10:34 PM   #30
Alex McRobie
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Re: Idea on volume of workouts

i recommend CFSB or the CF fredricton, basically both programs / wods do some kind of heavy lifting set before most WODs.

talk to Jeff martin, he is a genius about all of this,

also talk to anthony bainbridge

both are great sources, PM me if you want anymore info.
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