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Old 07-24-2010, 05:55 AM   #11
Kevin Bowman
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Re: 2010 Games effect on 2011 sectionals/regionals

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Originally Posted by John Swanson View Post
I know this is a touch off topic but... I would love to see it moved back to the original place. I loved where Crossfit is going but I like the more of the rugged old school look to it. Does anyone else feel like this?
After watching the 2009 games on youtube (at least portions) and then the 2010 Games on the website live, I agree.

Don't get me wrong, the games were still phenomenal. But I would prefer to see something more rugged than running on a track.
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Old 07-28-2010, 10:14 AM   #12
Mike Paul
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Re: 2010 Games effect on 2011 sectionals/regionals

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Originally Posted by Jesse Gray View Post
So I guess you could say that while last year's games had a strength bias, this year we had a skill bias? I think overall the games were very well programmed. My only problem with so much skill based programming is that we begin to run the risk of rewarding technique over work capacity. I'm not saying this is necessarily a bad thing, just that potentially, a person who is stronger, has better met-con and so on could lose to a person with less of those but better technique. Which is the fittest? I guess that's the real question!
Chris Spealler and Kristan Clever are in part relatively stonger at weights because of their superior technique. Something like an Olympic Lift requires skill and strength, thus a strong low skilled competitor could lose to a weaker but higher skilled competitor. The fittest in any given context is the one who wins - but varying makeups of fitness could lead to that win.
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Old 07-28-2010, 10:46 AM   #13
Jeremy Galo
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Re: 2010 Games effect on 2011 sectionals/regionals

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Originally Posted by Jesse Gray View Post
So I guess you could say that while last year's games had a strength bias, this year we had a skill bias? I think overall the games were very well programmed. My only problem with so much skill based programming is that we begin to run the risk of rewarding technique over work capacity. I'm not saying this is necessarily a bad thing, just that potentially, a person who is stronger, has better met-con and so on could lose to a person with less of those but better technique. Which is the fittest? I guess that's the real question!
The fittest is the one who can perform the task the fastest. You can use technique or strength or a combination of both to do it. Even with perfect technique, a requisite amount of strength still needs to be present.

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Indeed! However, when you favor one component of fitness over another you begin to reward the specialist. Last year the strength specialist, this year the skill specialist! ... who also happens to be ridiculously fit.
Any given task will favor one person over another. It doesn't make them specialists necessarily. It just means people have different strengths and weaknesses.

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Originally Posted by Mike Paul View Post
Chris Spealler and Kristan Clever are in part relatively stonger at weights because of their superior technique. Something like an Olympic Lift requires skill and strength, thus a strong low skilled competitor could lose to a weaker but higher skilled competitor. The fittest in any given context is the one who wins - but varying makeups of fitness could lead to that win.
^^^ This

And besides, Spealler and Clever are FAR from specialists. Even if you took their weightlifting totals... while impressive by CF standards (for a given weight), they'd still get whooped by any elite weightlifter.
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Old 07-28-2010, 11:30 AM   #14
Greg Light
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Re: 2010 Games effect on 2011 sectionals/regionals

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Originally Posted by Jeremy Galo View Post
And besides, Spealler and Clever are FAR from specialists. Even if you took their weightlifting totals... while impressive by CF standards (for a given weight), they'd still get whooped by any elite weightlifter.
replace "elite weightlifter" with "elite 12 year old chinese girl weightlifter" and I think you hit the nail on the head.
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Old 07-28-2010, 12:39 PM   #15
Justin McCallon
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Re: 2010 Games effect on 2011 sectionals/regionals

Clever is pretty legit on the weightlifting side. A girl putting up 93kg at a body weight of 63kg? I'm pretty sure that would qualify her for the National Championships.

Edit:
http://assets.teamusa.org/assets/doc...ps_Results.xls
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In the Excel, you can scroll over to pick Women 63. First place was Natalie Burgener(!) with a 110 C&J (and a total 42kg above second), and second was Jessie Humeston with a 93kg C&J and a 70kg Snatch (which I would guess Clever could beat).


I realize that Clever did not do a Clean, and she did a behind the neck jerk, but she also did this with a 90 second time limit in which she did 3 lifts, and this was at the end of an 18 minute workout that she took second in.
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Old 07-28-2010, 02:16 PM   #16
Greg Light
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Re: 2010 Games effect on 2011 sectionals/regionals

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Originally Posted by Justin McCallon View Post
Clever is pretty legit on the weightlifting side. A girl putting up 93kg at a body weight of 63kg? I'm pretty sure that would qualify her for the National Championships.

Edit:
http://assets.teamusa.org/assets/doc...ps_Results.xls
WFS
In the Excel, you can scroll over to pick Women 63. First place was Natalie Burgener(!) with a 110 C&J (and a total 42kg above second), and second was Jessie Humeston with a 93kg C&J and a 70kg Snatch (which I would guess Clever could beat).


I realize that Clever did not do a Clean, and she did a behind the neck jerk, but she also did this with a 90 second time limit in which she did 3 lifts, and this was at the end of an 18 minute workout that she took second in.
Definitely legit in the US and amazing. I was more shocked by the fact that those aren't even close to the openers for the 48kg class at the Olympics.
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Old 07-28-2010, 02:21 PM   #17
Justin McCallon
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Re: 2010 Games effect on 2011 sectionals/regionals

I am pretty skeptical about drug use at that level....

That said, Burgener was on our Olympic team.

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/summer...ults?discId=48


I'm not saying Clever is going to be on our Olympic Weightlifting team or anything. But, she's not uncompetitive. She is doing better than the vast majority of the girls that specialize in Olympic Weightlifting...
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Last edited by Justin McCallon : 07-28-2010 at 02:24 PM.
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Old 07-28-2010, 06:43 PM   #18
Jeremy Galo
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Re: 2010 Games effect on 2011 sectionals/regionals

I guess when I think Elite, I think more on the Olympics side of things. But yes, Clever's numbers are definitely impressive.

My major point was that just because they have skill in a given lift, it does NOT define them as a specialist. Especially Clever. Look at the results, she placed 1st or 2nd in every event with the exception of the Sandbag/wheelbarrow event. And even then, I'd say that was more attributed to her height disadvantage than her general fitness.
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Old 07-30-2010, 08:30 PM   #19
Tim Nakashima
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Re: 2010 Games effect on 2011 sectionals/regionals

Where were all these "skill" dominant workouts? Other than double-unders, I really don't recall any wods where skill was required to the point of it being considered "skill biased".

Regarding the venue, I'm sure the athletes appreciated a place to relax and cool down between events. However, I too liked the ruggedness of the ranch. Im sure once the pool, locker rooms and stadium are built it'll head back to Aromas.

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Old 07-30-2010, 08:49 PM   #20
Katherine Derbyshire
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Re: 2010 Games effect on 2011 sectionals/regionals

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Originally Posted by Tim Nakashima View Post
Where were all these "skill" dominant workouts? Other than double-unders, I really don't recall any wods where skill was required to the point of it being considered "skill biased".
Muscle-ups, ring handstand pushups, wall climbs... as opposed to the 1 RM lifts and endurance running we saw last year.

Katherine
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