CrossFit Discussion Board  

Go Back   CrossFit Discussion Board > CrossFit Forum > Fitness
CrossFit Home Forum Site Rules CrossFit FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 04-06-2003, 08:18 PM   #1
TJ Cooper
******
 
Profile:  
Posts: n/a
i recently read an article that reviewed the anaerobic power performance of female firefighters. The review itself was interesting in that the final results showed the bulk of firefighter needs were anerobic, BUT the same test showed the level of anerobic needs were "unknown "at this time. Did i miss something ? How can the research show a need and not identify the need at the same time. can any firefighter assist me in this ?
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2003, 12:06 PM   #2
Matt Cullen
Departed Matt Cullen is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jan 1970
 
Posts: 46
Hi TJ,

I hope I can help with your question. I am a Physical training Instructor in the British Fire service. Could'nt really understand what you need to know. If you want U can contact me on my email, let me know

Matt.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2003, 06:44 PM   #3
David Wood
Departed David Wood is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Oct 2002
 
Posts: 3,303
TJ:

I haven't seen the article in question, but I'm willing to bet that they were behaving (and writing) like typical academics . . . basically, they weren't going to commit to *anything* unless they were absolutely certain of it.

So, their "analysis" probably showed that the nature of firefighting (actually putting out real fires) is predominantly and/or fundamentally ANaerobic. (Well, duh . . .)

Meanwhile, the standard exercise prescription given by the medical profession to almost everyone (including firefighters) is: "Run 3-4 miles 3 to 4 times per week" (fundamentally aerobic).

The authors were probably struck by the incompatibility of the standard prescription and the actual needs of firefighters. If they were, they're already 100% smarter than most medical and exercise "professionals".

But, I suspect, that's all they would be willing to say: "they're incompatible".

What they won't say (without a comprehensive study, and conclusive proof), is just exactly how much "anaerobic need" firefighters have, or how an exercise prescription should be written for them. They literally don't know those answers, and they define "knowing" in very special ways.

Around here, experience has shown most everyone who tries it that CrossFit works pretty well. I'm not a fireman (thank god . . . that job looks TOUGH), but if I had a physical job of any kind, I'd train CrossFit as if my life depended on it.

But the authors of that article probably don't actually work out, and the context in which they're writing may demand a double-blind, cross-matched controls, 2-year study with hundreds of participants before they "know" anything.

Such is the world of academic publishing . . .

David Wood

P.S. Incidentally, it doesn't have to be just "academics" who are so uncertain. Most mainstream media won't come to any conclusions of their own under any circumstances . . . but will cheerfully report the opinion of any "expert" they can find.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2003, 02:09 PM   #4
Coach
Founding Father Coach is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Aug 2003
 
Posts: 391
I wish someone had convinced me fifteen years ago that the world of exercise science was berift of useful information/research.

This is a point that Dan John and I both have struggled to get across and with only marginal success I believe.

I wish I could recoup the time that I've spent reading peer reviewed journals; I'd opt to put the time into interviewing coaches and athletes and be a decade ahead of where we are now!!


  Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2003, 01:49 AM   #5
Matt Cullen
Departed Matt Cullen is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jan 1970
 
Posts: 46
Guys, Just A short one. I have been a firefighter for 8 years and no training program comes close to crossfit for helping me with my job. Everyday more firefighters come to me and ask about it.
Keep it up Matt Cullen.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2003, 04:21 AM   #6
Tavita
******
 
Profile:  
Posts: n/a
hmmm...from reading your question/statement you want to know why the article did not list everything that a firefighter does that uses anaerobic ability?

The aerobic prescription is great at bringing balance to an overly-anaerobic person and helps with weight management along with diet (most firefighters eat a helluvalot). The "life" is 80% mental and 30% physical. The extra 10% in physical pops up when you tell yourself to persevere (the beauty of the "life"). Your brain will help you learn after every alarm what you may need to physically work on. But to answer your question, the experts of the article would have a hard time measuring the anaerobic need because of the variety of factors associated in alarms. Such variety includes the firefighter's height, weight, age for example. Another variable is the type of alarm, how much personnel are present to assist, and the resources available and time for certain activities. With no exposures and no further threat to life or property, the speed or intensity of the initial attack would be not as fast or intense as a member would have to perform where there is a threat to life, threat to property, or neighboring homes/exposures. Also what must be taken into account is what kind of company commander is in charge of you. Is he/she an attacker or a defender? Does he/she want to finish up fast and complete? Also what needs to be factored is how much experience the firefighter has with certain alarms. Lack of experience may cause more physical stress output and mental stress output. The experienced firefighter would know how to save time, pace themselves, and what to do and use. From a layman researcher's point of view they have no idea and from experiences there are no documented cases in which members measured exactly what they did, at how much pressure, at what speed, and how much equipment in weight they carried. That's a report from hell.

But figuring out anaerobic use I think, without reading the article (that you did not refer us to), comes from the fact of what is seen. A firefighter using back muscles, leg muscles, and arm muscle to move objects, hold hoses, manipulate hoses, carry big equipment, and carry victims. But what might not be mentioned are body mechanics involved in completing a task in the fire service. The better you have a grip on body mechanics the easier it is to do the work. Like saying that good technique in bjj is better than being all muscle. Fire service, as tough as it looks, has good technique. You just gotta figure it out or learn it from veterans. Anaerobic may look like an obvious answer. But it's only half of it. The better half being technique. Most members I know rather learn how not to expend so much energy, so they try new techniques to reach that point (like have the rookie do the grunt work).
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2003, 06:29 PM   #7
Dale S. Jansen
Member Dale S. Jansen is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: tucson  arizona
Posts: 279
as a firefighter/paramedic for several years, screw the science. my department runs 2 man engines and 2 man ambulances out of each station. we are quite rural. we need both anaerobic and aerobic capability. you need to be able to hit hard initially and then continued until reenforcements arrive. i am a participant in the firefighter combat challenge with consistent sub 3 minute times. world record is 1mn 19 secs. i have some mechanical disadvantages; i weigh 162 and am only 5' 9" tall. i also engage in adventure racing and endurance event like the bataan memorial death march and the leadville mountain bike century. your answer, tjcooper, is to do it all. crossfit is nice for breaking up the monotony of my typical routines. so go do all of it and have fun.}}
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-30-2003, 12:14 PM   #8
Derek
Departed Derek is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jan 1970
 
Posts: 47
First off welcome to CrossFit, Tavita!
I have a number of questions to ask of you so I hope you will be patient with me. # 1. How is one an overly anaerobic person, and how is this detrimental to a Fireman? Well did you know that Anaerobic activity benefits cardiovascular function while simultaneously decreasing body fat! Yes, it is an irrefutable fact and I have the data to back up this claim. But should you desire another point of view Arthur Jones way back in 1970s came to the same conclusion with his West Point study .
Derek

  Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2003, 06:45 PM   #9
Tavita
******
 
Profile:  
Posts: n/a
hmmm...to answer Derek's question on my stating "overly anaerobic person" just mentioning about just lifting weights only. Nothing really to balance it out like a circuit or even stretching (traditional warm up and cool down). There are firefighters that choose to do such workouts, have a poor diet, and in turn they are strong- but may only be able to support their own excessive weight. Hoped it cleared that up. You may have read a little too deep into the statement. Don't forget as well that aerobic is not always running in spandex shorts or taking a class at a local Beauty Gym. Aerobic, as I learned in simple terms in high school is an activity that uses oxygen and improves cardiovascular fitness. Anaerobic is explained as being the opposite of aerobic (they kept it really simple and stone age). But anyone who has ever ran gassers or played very intense sports at all knows this isn't true---which leads me to answer your 2nd question which is yes, the popular term, anaerobic activity can benefit cardiovascular health and can decrease bodyweight in terms bodyfat and help build lean muscle mass. I think all activity is aerobic, because it accomplishes the requirements of using oxygen and improving cardiovascular health. But there are different levels of intensity to every activity.

Your last two sentences were quite unnecessary though, in fact it resembles the kind of trolling done in other bulletin board groups. So, in opinion, I could care less for the data you have or some West Point study. In physical culture because every individual is different the only real data comes from personal experience. If none of this CrossFit mumbo jumbo did not work for any of us we would not do it. If none of the runners and bikers received results from their activity then they would cease as well- so many studies and so many contradicting theories and conclusions float around. Now if that is your only question (flame) about my 'stupid' statement, then read it again and comment on the rest of my 'stupid' post please. The comment about my comment of "being overly anaerobic" is not contructive criticism and is simply not the main point of my attempt of answering TJ Cooper's question. You are probably a firefighter that knows the what goes on (the ugliness of the firehouse) the job and the many methods that are used to combat occupational obesity and the rehabilitation done with such members.

But I like doing the CrossFit WOD, and just about every WOD I have to substitute exercises because of lack of equipment and facilities in my area. Just hope CrossFit doesn't disappear because there will probably be many of us who can't put a similar workout program for everyday of the week.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2003, 06:34 AM   #10
TJ Cooper
Affiliate TJ Cooper is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Jacksonville  FLA
Posts: 101
Tavita. sorry for the delay. heres the article. apologies for being vague.

Misner, J. E., Boileau, R. A., Plowman, S. A., Joyce, B., Hurovitz, S., Elmore, B. G., Gates, M. A., Gilbert, J. A., Horswill, C. A.. 1989: Physical Performance and Physical Fitness of a Select Group of Female Firefighter Applicants. The Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research: Vol. 3, No. 3, pp. 62–67.
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Firefighter boots Eric Cohen Equipment 3 01-24-2007 12:06 AM
FIREFIGHTER STAIRCLIMB Dale S. Jansen Community 0 02-10-2005 07:43 AM
Firefighter Stairclimb Dale S. Jansen Community 0 11-04-2004 05:36 PM
Need advice on Firefighter test please Chris Bush Starting 2 09-04-2004 06:49 AM
Firefighter challenge Dirk Stadey Competitions 19 10-02-2003 04:46 AM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:35 AM.


CrossFit is a registered trademark of CrossFit Inc.