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Exercises Movements, technique & proper execution

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Old 05-12-2008, 10:38 PM   #1
Matthew Barrett
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The Decline of the Kip

Hey just this just occured to me while watching a video of someone doing kipping pullups. Here's the thing.

i) Is the kip designed to assist the movement or substitue it? I have noticed the latter occurring lately. Rather than effectively being able to do pullups, it has become how effectively can you kip. The more effectively you can kip the more pullups you can achieve. My point is why call it a kipping pullup and not a kip ?

ii) The position some adopt to kip can change the position of the head and neck during the movement hence raising the chin and decreasing the work that needs to be done to cover the same distance ie. by raising the chin, decreasing distance between chin and bar. For example take Bill and Bob, they are identical twins. Bill kips with his chin up and Bob kips with his chin parallel to the ground. Both complete 50 ullups. Who has done more work, and how can they be compared ?


Ok guys before you ask. I did a search regarding this and I didnt find anything that really answered my questions. Secondly I am very interested in what others think about this (Im waiting for Steven Low to chime in).

Matt.
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Old 05-12-2008, 11:01 PM   #2
Jeff Yan
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Re: The Decline of the Kip

1) Supposedly...training with the kip will help you develop better (strict) pull ups. Evidence to support this can be seen in people's 1 rep max for weighted pull ups. CrossFitters, who regularly train with kipping pull ups (or simply "kips" as you may call them), often can pull more extra weight than people who just train doing dead hangs.

2) I don't think this really has much to do with the kip. Kipping does not require nor does it inherently encourage tilting the head in any direction any more than doing (regular, dead hang) pull ups. The "technical" standard (which I and several others don't necessarily agree with) for a CF pull up is chest to bar, which is a range of motion that can't be diminished by chin tilting anyway. If CFers are tilting their chins to decrease ROM, it probably has less to do with their kipping habits and more to do with the fact that they are in the middle of doing hundreds of reps.
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Old 05-12-2008, 11:25 PM   #3
Steven Low
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Re: The Decline of the Kip

1. Power movements (even at high reps) tend to build more strength than non-explosive movements. So... kipping does tend to translate to better 1 RM as Jeff has stated. How else do you see CFers pulling out +50 lbs and beyond weighted pullups when they never do weighted pullups except when they come up with 1-1-1s or 3-3-3s? "Cheating" or not it gets results even with deadhangs.

2. It's fairly negligible IMO. But do them the way YOU want. If people want to cheat themselves then let them cheat themselves. I still see some CFers not going to full lockout (like on pushups or squats) or not getting deep enough in movements (squats, thrusters, wall ball, etc.). You can tell people.. but it's up to them if they care.

Thankfully, most of us tend to prefer full ROM with good technique but form breakdown vs. technique has already been discussed fairly thoroughly. Well, at least that's my take on #2 (Jeff's answer is perfectly valid as well).
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Last edited by Steven Low : 05-12-2008 at 11:38 PM.
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Old 05-13-2008, 12:12 AM   #4
Derek Maffett
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Re: The Decline of the Kip

1) It's called a kipping pull-up because even if your kip is super-efficient, you are not getting up to that bar without pulling. Sorry, it just ain't happening.

2) You're going to hurt your head if you keep worrying about this. Anyhow, full ROM for real men requires going to a handstand each rep.
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Old 05-13-2008, 12:15 AM   #5
Derek Maffett
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Re: The Decline of the Kip

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Low View Post
If people want to cheat themselves then let them cheat themselves. I still see some CFers not going to full lockout (like on pushups or squats) or not getting deep enough in movements (squats, thrusters, wall ball, etc.). You can tell people.. but it's up to them if they care.
That's one of my problem with dynamax balls. It seems debatable whether they even get everyone to go below parallel on squats.
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Old 05-13-2008, 12:33 AM   #6
Damian Frank
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Re: The Decline of the Kip

I do strict pullups once a week, weighted strict pullups once or twice a week, and really on kip when I start getting really tired doing the murph.(usually once a week) I can work up to about 65 pounds for my last weighted set of 2 or 3 reps with strict form.

Point being I think you can get results either way. Just matters how much work you put into either one and what works for you.
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Old 05-13-2008, 04:48 AM   #7
Joey Powell
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Re: The Decline of the Kip

the kip is already its own exercise. you are using a "kip" (violently rolling over the hip) to assist with the pull-up. Hence...Kipping Pull-up.
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