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Old 11-04-2014, 01:14 PM   #1
Philipp Lendner
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Conjugate CrossFit for Olympic Weightlifting

Hi everyone,

I would like to ask a few questions about Chris Mason's Conjugate CrossFit as explained here http://journal.crossfit.com/2010/11/...e-crossfit.tpl (wfs). I would like to try to use it for my Oly lifting, but I cannot figure a few things out. There is also pretty little information on this board as well as on the web. Only information I found is this http://tnation.t-nation.com/free_onl...lympic_lifting (wfs). If my questions are answered somewhere else please point me to that place.

I am mainly a CrossFitter, but I do same of my training at a Olympic Weightlifting Club. I do lift for our team, but we are basically a "just for fun" team. We test ourselves against each other and against other teams, but nobody is going to get crazy if we do not win. I have no desire in Oly's other than having fun, supporting my team with my lifts and getting a carryover to my CrossFit workouts.

The questions I have are:
  1. The Westside Conjugate system uses Max Effort (ME) and Dynamic Effort (DE) days. Chris replaced the DE days by MetCons. However, the classic Powerlifting split of one ME upper body and one ME lower body day does not make much sense in Oly lifting, because the lifts are always full body movements. So if I go for Oly lifting, would the split be one ME Snatch day (with upper body assistance work) and one ME C&J day (with lower body assistance work)? This is in-season, when I need to do the lifts or derivates of them (keep in mind with the replacement of DE days by MetCons I cannot really work my Oly lifts on that days); during off-season the classic split would probably benefit the building of a strength base.
  2. Would use all kinds of squats, deadlifts, and pulls as assistance work (in the rep-range 8-20)?
  3. Another question about assistance work: how do you select exercises to tackle your weaknesses? Just select a few ones for the upper and lower body and hope they work? Select based on feeling?
  4. If you answer my first question with yes, my week might look like this:
    M ME C&J (lower body assistance)
    Tu MetCon
    W Rest
    Th ME Snatch (upper body assistance)
    F MetCon
    Sa MetCon/Rest
    Su Rest

Last edited by Philipp Lendner : 11-04-2014 at 02:05 PM. Reason: Forgot something
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Old 11-04-2014, 09:00 PM   #2
Mark E. Wallace
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Re: Conjugate CrossFit for Olympic Weightlifting

This won't answer your questions (the thread might; I won't), but I did want to point out that there's a rather long thread on Chris's Conjugate program right here (wfs).

- Mark
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Old 11-05-2014, 09:46 AM   #3
Chris Mason
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Re: Conjugate CrossFit for Olympic Weightlifting

Phillip, what are you max C&J and snatch currently?
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Old 11-05-2014, 09:57 AM   #4
Philipp Lendner
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Re: Conjugate CrossFit for Olympic Weightlifting

Current stats (I'm European, so I hope you do not mind kg numbers):
C & J 105 kg (only count good reps for a competion)
Snatch 80 kg (only count good reps for a competion)
BS (3RM) 160 kg
FS (3RM) 136 kg
DL 215 kg
Press 70 kg
Bench 110 kg
Bodyweight 80 kg

Not good, but as I said, I have no big goals in Oly Lifting.

Last edited by Philipp Lendner : 11-05-2014 at 10:30 AM.
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Old 11-05-2014, 10:02 AM   #5
Philipp Lendner
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Re: Conjugate CrossFit for Olympic Weightlifting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark E. Wallace View Post
This won't answer your questions (the thread might; I won't), but I did want to point out that there's a rather long thread on Chris's Conjugate program right here (wfs).

- Mark
Thanks for posting that. I am working myself through that thread, up to now at page 50. Lot of staff to read. I thought that there should have been a thread, but I did not find it. Searched for "Conjugate Crossfit" in the topic, which obviously was the wrong way to go.

Last edited by Philipp Lendner : 11-05-2014 at 10:14 AM.
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Old 11-05-2014, 12:41 PM   #6
Struan Potter
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Re: Conjugate CrossFit for Olympic Weightlifting

What's your rationale for using a conjugate system for weightlifting?
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Old 11-06-2014, 10:52 AM   #7
Chris Mason
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Re: Conjugate CrossFit for Olympic Weightlifting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Philipp Lendner View Post
Current stats (I'm European, so I hope you do not mind kg numbers):
C & J 105 kg (only count good reps for a competion)
Snatch 80 kg (only count good reps for a competion)
BS (3RM) 160 kg
FS (3RM) 136 kg
DL 215 kg
Press 70 kg
Bench 110 kg
Bodyweight 80 kg

Not good, but as I said, I have no big goals in Oly Lifting.
Based on your reply I would focus on the standard template and then add in skill work for the O-lifts. In other words, get generally stronger via the powerlifts and their variants and continue to build your O technique with reps done in the 60-70% range.

You need to increase your brute strength first and foremost in my book.
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Old 11-06-2014, 11:23 AM   #8
Philipp Lendner
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Re: Conjugate CrossFit for Olympic Weightlifting

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Originally Posted by Struan Potter View Post
What's your rationale for using a conjugate system for weightlifting?
Without any specific order:
  • I like Crossfit, I like Oly Lifting.
  • I learned that in strength and conditioning, it is way easier to err on the side of doing too much then doing too less. Chris's program to me seems to consider this.
  • I really dislike any percentage work. Not to say that that stuff does not work, and at some times work really well. Yet, I simply do not like training with a previously calculated list of tasks to do.
  • I want to have short training sessions. Using this system does that.
  • Program sounds like fun to me. Might be the most important reason. At the end of the day, I will never make money lifting weights, so I am not necessarily searching for the most effective way to increase my numbers. This after all is my hobby (think some guys out here should remember that from time to time). So, if I do not make this last lift in training/competition, guess what will happen? I will go home, eat something, go to bed, stand up the next day and go to work. This however does not mean I do not train hard. I certainly do. I love PR's. But my life does not depend on them.
  • Never really used the exercises Westside uses for assistance work. Always like to try something new.
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Old 11-06-2014, 11:30 AM   #9
Philipp Lendner
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Re: Conjugate CrossFit for Olympic Weightlifting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Mason View Post
Based on your reply I would focus on the standard template and then add in skill work for the O-lifts. In other words, get generally stronger via the powerlifts and their variants and continue to build your O technique with reps done in the 60-70% range.

You need to increase your brute strength first and foremost in my book.
Two things here:
  1. I am totaly with you about doing the standard template during the time of the year when I do not have competitions (~8-9 months/year). My question was about the 3-4 months when I would actually compete in Oly lifting.
  2. Where to put the Olys? Do them before the MetCons (once a week snatch, once a week C&J)?
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Old 11-06-2014, 02:13 PM   #10
Blair Robert Lowe
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Re: Conjugate CrossFit for Olympic Weightlifting

You have enough of a strength base that you are inefficient. Boosting strength levels may increase your levels or not.

So it may just be a technique problem.

If you only want to snatch an CnJ once per week with low volume, that's your prerogative.

Screwing around with 60-70% would be a waste of time as those are warmup weights. You should be working with weights in the 70-90%.

In the offseason, you can do more strength first if you want to push it. Something like LSU. Google the beginner LSU as it is only 4 days instead . Of 5 with less exercises and volume. Typically Sn one day, clean the other.
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