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Old 09-16-2013, 10:59 AM   #1
Ryan Seymour
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Feedback on Crossfit/Wendler Hybrid

Looking to get some feedback from people who have experience combining Crossfit with strength programs. A little background on myself first. I have years of conventional lifting under my belt and have been involved in various sports and strength/conditioning programs. Now that Im getting a little older (27), and considering my line of work, my fitness priorities have changed to focus more on my conditioning, mobility, and aerobic capacity. I slowly started incorporating crossfit into my training and for the past 6 months have done Crossfit almost exclusively. Although Im still working on certain movements, Id consider myself full-on Crossfit at this point.

Now that Im getting my conditioning up to speed Id like to incorporate a strength component into the mix. The goal is to keep the focus on conditioning but allow myself to make progressive (but slow, Im being realistic here) strength gains. Ive done a lot of reading on different programs (Conjugate CF, CFSB, Outlaw, etc.) and decided to stick with my old go-to 5/3/1 BBB, modified for Crossfit. Heres what it looks like:

Day 1 5/3/1 Press + Mobility
Day 2 METCON
Day 3 Oly work (5x3 or 3x5) + METCON
Day 4 METCON
Day 5 5/3/1 Squat + Mobility
-----------------------------------------------
Day 1 5/3/1 Bench + Mobility
Day 2 METCON
Day 3 Oly work (5x3 or 3x5) + METCON
Day 4 METCON
Day 5 5/3/1 Deadlift + Mobility

(5 days of work per week, give or take, and rest days can be thrown in where needed)

For those not familiar with this variation of 5/3/1 its one Wendler promotes where lifting is done 2x/week, and the work that is normally done in one week is stretched over two weeks. The result is one 5/3/1 cycle lasting 6 weeks as opposed to the usual 4. Because the frequency is reduced there is no need for a deload, you just start the new cycle as soon as you finish your 5/3/1. I figure this will give myself enough recovery time between 5/3/1 days while still allowing me to have room for metcons in between. As far as the metcons go, I plan on sticking mostly with benchmark and main site WODs with an occasional hero WOD thrown in. Programmed so that I wouldnt be doing certain ones that are heavy on a particular movement I already worked for power with 5/3/1 that week. Simple planning, steady progression.

Any thoughts on whether this will fit my goals? Overtax my CNS? Better options?
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Old 09-16-2013, 11:03 AM   #2
Bob Butz
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Re: Feedback on Crossfit/Wendler Hybrid

If you buy the 2nd edition of Wendler's book, he included a basic template for combining 5/3/1 and CrossFit style metabolic conditioning.
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Old 09-16-2013, 11:08 AM   #3
Ryan Seymour
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Re: Feedback on Crossfit/Wendler Hybrid

I have the PDF for the 1st edition, I'll have to look up the second.
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Old 09-16-2013, 04:45 PM   #4
Oli Kellett
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Re: Feedback on Crossfit/Wendler Hybrid

Once I have recovered from a cracked rib I am going to use 531 for the next 6+ months.
I am going to do the following:

Monday - Squat + assistance things. Might do some recovery rowing as well
Tuesday - Bench + assitance + metcon/prowler
Wednesday - active rest, might go for a jog or jump on the rower.
Thursday - Deadlift + assitance + prowler/metcon
Friday - OHP + assistance, might just in on the metcon at the box but it will depend how I feel.
Saturday - jog/swim/cycle/whatever I feel like doing.
Sunday - rest


The Wednesday and Saturday sessions will be depending on how beat up I am, if I am suffering then I will just rest and do some foam rolling etc. If I feel up for something light I will do it just to get the body moving.

WFS link to 531 and CrossFit exert from the latest edition.
https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&r...,d.dGI&cad=rja
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Old 09-16-2013, 05:58 PM   #5
Ryan Seymour
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Re: Feedback on Crossfit/Wendler Hybrid

Thanks for the link.

My one hold up on doing the full 5/3/1 protocol (as in all 4 lifts in the same week) is that you either sacrifice the amount of METCON/conditioning work you can do, or you could possibly fry your CNS. For someone coming from a Crossfit background that's looking to improve strength, I can see how sacrificing some Crossfit work would be fine. Especially when they're only focusing on the strength work for a set period of time. I'm just trying to program something that will let me maintain the strength I already have and really focus on the conditioning side of it.

For what it's worth, I've used this expanded version of 5/3/1 before during a period of time where I was only able to lift a couple times a week. I was worried the progress would come slower if I was only hitting each lift every other week but surprisingly it actually came easier. Probably a combination of not having to deload and hitting fewer plateaus.
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Old 09-16-2013, 06:15 PM   #6
Oli Kellett
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Re: Feedback on Crossfit/Wendler Hybrid

Thing is my rugby season has just finished so I don't need to be conditioned for another 3 months. If I am feeling too worn down then a deload week on both the lifting and the metcons will help etc.
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Old 09-17-2013, 06:27 PM   #7
Brad Allen Jones
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Re: Feedback on Crossfit/Wendler Hybrid

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Seymour View Post
Thanks for the link.

My one hold up on doing the full 5/3/1 protocol (as in all 4 lifts in the same week) is that you either sacrifice the amount of METCON/conditioning work you can do, or you could possibly fry your CNS. For someone coming from a Crossfit background that's looking to improve strength, I can see how sacrificing some Crossfit work would be fine. Especially when they're only focusing on the strength work for a set period of time. I'm just trying to program something that will let me maintain the strength I already have and really focus on the conditioning side of it.

For what it's worth, I've used this expanded version of 5/3/1 before during a period of time where I was only able to lift a couple times a week. I was worried the progress would come slower if I was only hitting each lift every other week but surprisingly it actually came easier. Probably a combination of not having to deload and hitting fewer plateaus.
What are you current strength numbers and goals? I think that will help us figure out if this is actually a good plan.
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Old 09-17-2013, 07:42 PM   #8
Ryan Seymour
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Re: Feedback on Crossfit/Wendler Hybrid

I couldn't tell you my raw totals but these are my last set of 5/3/1 maxes from a few months ago...

Squat - 345
Front Squat - 255
Deadlift - 375
Overhead press - 210
Bench - 305

185 lbs bodyweight

I took bench and back squats out of my 5/3/1 a while back to focus on front squats and OHP, I've also been recovering from an elbow issue. My goal is pretty simple: improve my conditioning through CF while at least maintaining my current strength.

In other words, crossfit with a strength component rather than strength work with a crossfit component. Things like CFSB and Conjugate look awesome, I just prefer Wendler's method when it comes to strength progression aspect of it.
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Old 09-17-2013, 11:09 PM   #9
William Garrett
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Re: Feedback on Crossfit/Wendler Hybrid

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan Seymour View Post
I couldn't tell you my raw totals but these are my last set of 5/3/1 maxes from a few months ago...

Squat - 345
Front Squat - 255
Deadlift - 375
Overhead press - 210
Bench - 305

185 lbs bodyweight

I took bench and back squats out of my 5/3/1 a while back to focus on front squats and OHP, I've also been recovering from an elbow issue. My goal is pretty simple: improve my conditioning through CF while at least maintaining my current strength.

In other words, crossfit with a strength component rather than strength work with a crossfit component. Things like CFSB and Conjugate look awesome, I just prefer Wendler's method when it comes to strength progression aspect of it.


I used Wendler and Boring But Big (BBB) with OHP & Bench on my last deployment in Jan-May.

Initially I tried BBB with squat/DL, but I found I just couldn't stick with the volume, and scaled back to just the main 5/3/1 sets and added some 225x5 FS for small accessory work on Backsquat days, then some tire-flips for DL, or for that case whatever I felt like.

Once I scaled back I found I was to maintain better conditioning, and my WOD's and conditioning work progressed alot better. This was just my experience.

Regardless I was easily able to maintain the 10lb gain per month on Squat/DL despite next to no assistance/accessory work and 5lb on Bench/OHP. I had PR'd every lift, by my 3 month mark, and had no issues PR'n most every CF wod I attempted within reason.


I have been in a maintenance stage over the summer. I race mountain bikes, and spend alot of time in the back country. I have just been doing the 5/3/1 sets and nothing else with only maybe a 10lb loss in some of my weights.

Definitely achievable if your looking to maintain, very achievable if your looking to get even stronger. Just pick a goal and hit it.
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M/35/5'10@190lbs/L1 -- Squat 420, FS 325, DL 520, Press 215, Bench 315, 5k Row 19:30

Last edited by William Garrett; 09-17-2013 at 11:13 PM..
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Old 09-18-2013, 03:27 PM   #10
Brad Allen Jones
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Re: Feedback on Crossfit/Wendler Hybrid

If those are your goals I'm sure you will be fine with that. One thing I would change though: Do your squats and deads on Mondays, assuming you are resting on the weekends. Better to do fresh than after 4 consecutive days.
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