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Old 05-13-2010, 08:53 AM   #21
Sean Dunston
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Re: "Rules are rules" vs Sportsmanship

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Originally Posted by Brian LaFonte View Post
But you still win, based on following the rules of the game. If i win the 100m by false starting, but still spank you, are you going to give me the win? It is not a technicallity - it is a RULE. Follow the rules of the game and you win, fair and square. Tough lesson to learn, but I bet she will never forget it.
Apples and oranges.

Pole vault is the competitor against the bar. The one who goes over the highest bar wins.

The 100M dash is the competitor against the clock. The clock starts when the gun sounds and stops when the competitor crosses the finish line. The one to finish in the quickest time wins.

In your example, the comparison could only be made similar if the competitor who had the false start on the sprint, had a spring board or a lowered bar for the pole vault.

Not equivalent.
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Old 05-13-2010, 09:19 AM   #22
Katherine Derbyshire
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Re: "Rules are rules" vs Sportsmanship

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In a sort-of similar situation, I used to play chess competitively. I have both won and lost on technicalities (time running out, etc.). That is INCREDIBLY frustrating, especially when you are the loser. If you don't like the rules, don't compete.
We could argue about whether winning on time is a technicality, but this isn't the place. I've been on both sides of the touch-move rule changing the outcome, though.

I once caught a 10-year old kid cheating -- using his scoresheet to keep track of future moves -- and got him forfeited. I felt bad for about 30 seconds, until the TD explained that the kid was using the event as a warmup for Nationals and probably had more experience than I did.

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Old 05-13-2010, 09:38 AM   #23
Tony Black
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Re: "Rules are rules" vs Sportsmanship

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“In a state where corruption abounds, laws must be very numerous.”
- Publius Cornelius Tacitus


From wiki -

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Political corruption is the use of legislated powers by government officials for illegitimate private gain.

Win by lawyer, win by skill and effort. Whats the difference?


Yes the children must understand the rules or ANARCHY will reign and the downfall of civilisation will shortly ensue
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Last edited by Tony Black : 05-13-2010 at 09:40 AM.
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Old 05-13-2010, 10:00 AM   #24
Tim Barker
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Re: "Rules are rules" vs Sportsmanship

The guy is a ******. It is the girl and her coach's fault that she wore it. It is the other coach's fault for not pointing it out before she made the second attempt.

You know the winning team will leave that part out of the story in 10 years when they talk about winning the championship though.
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Old 05-13-2010, 10:01 AM   #25
Brian LaFonte
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Re: "Rules are rules" vs Sportsmanship

A win is a win, as long as you don't cheat to get there. I play dirty and play to win. Any advantage I can have over my oponent, i will take, as long as it is allowed. If I still lose, I will shake their hand and train better and harder for the next opportunity. The girl that lost can learn from this and become a better competitor.

Also, I am comparing rules to rules. By stating that a false start is different from wearing jewlery, you are ranking the rules. Both = disqualification. That is what is set in place by the host of the meet. No difference.

Please keep in mind that i feel for the girl that lost. Her coach should have been more strict on his athletes. Our coach would not let us off the bus with jewlery on. If caught with it, we ran more later.
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Old 05-13-2010, 11:48 AM   #26
Jason R O'Dell
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Re: "Rules are rules" vs Sportsmanship

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Originally Posted by Brian LaFonte View Post
The girl that lost can learn from this and become a better competitor.
That's funny because she was the best competitor. She won. She was the best at the given task. How can this make her a better competitor when she was the best?
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Old 05-13-2010, 12:01 PM   #27
Jamie J. Skibicki
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Re: "Rules are rules" vs Sportsmanship

"That's funny because she was the best competitor. She won. She was the best at the given task. How can this make her a better competitor when she was the best?"

Because she lost. Michelle Wi (sp) lost a tournament becuase she didn't fill in her card correctly. She played golf better than everyone else but still lost.
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Old 05-13-2010, 12:07 PM   #28
Jason R O'Dell
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Re: "Rules are rules" vs Sportsmanship

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Originally Posted by Jamie J. Skibicki View Post
"That's funny because she was the best competitor. She won. She was the best at the given task. How can this make her a better competitor when she was the best?"

Because she lost. Michelle Wi (sp) lost a tournament becuase she didn't fill in her card correctly. She played golf better than everyone else but still lost.
She lost due to a technicality. I'm sure in most people's eyes she still one. She was the better athlete on that day for sure. So I don't see how taking off a bracelet makes her a better competitor. It's not going to affect her athletic performance one way or another.
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Old 05-13-2010, 12:11 PM   #29
Sean Dunston
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Re: "Rules are rules" vs Sportsmanship

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Originally Posted by Brian LaFonte View Post
Also, I am comparing rules to rules. By stating that a false start is different from wearing jewlery, you are ranking the rules. Both = disqualification. That is what is set in place by the host of the meet. No difference.
Actually, I'm not ranking the rules. And what you said is not true - at least not all of the time. Ordinarily, in a false start just means that the competitors go back to the starting line and they have a re-start. SOMETIMES the one who has been called on the false start is DQ'd but that is not always the case.

My gripe is not with you, so let's just leave it there.

My gripe is with the coach that called the rule, and when and how he did it. Regardless of what he said AFTER THE FACT, I find it incredibly difficult to believe that he was unaware of the girl's friendship bracelet prior to her jump. This is bolstered by his supporting statement later that he had been called on the same rule in his prior years as a coach. I am more apt to believe that he's been itching to call out this rule against his opposition for his entire career - since it happened to him. It just so happened that the opportune moment was when his team had been beaten on the field and the only way he could win was by DQing the team that proved to be superior on the field.

Additionally, coaches tend to know who the best competitor is on their own team and on their opponent's team. Again, since she was the best pole vaulter on the opponent's team I am sure he'd scoped her out well in advance of her actual jump. Remember - by his own words he's been coaching track and field for 30 years.

The appropriate time, and the time to prove his good sportsmanship, to call the "jewelry" to the other coach's attention would be WELL BEFORE she made the jump.

What he should have done was told the opposing coach of a potential rule violation with the girl's bracelet, and left it up to the coach to speak to the girl. The way he actually did it, however, was classless.
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Old 05-13-2010, 12:11 PM   #30
Jamie J. Skibicki
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Re: "Rules are rules" vs Sportsmanship

How does not filling out the card correctly change Michelle's ability to golf?

Or forgetting to ask for a weight in a weightlifting meet?

Those are the rules and if you don't follow them you lose. And why was there no discression in this rule? There are alot of rules that are left up to a judging body or person to decide. This seems like one of them.
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