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Old 11-07-2009, 01:53 PM   #51
Frank E Morel
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Re: swine flue true statistics

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jared Buffie View Post
I think that was the most condescending thing a nurse has ever said to me. I believe I got as much training on immunology in school as you did, BTW. I just look at it from a different perspective. Of course, vaccines work in theory... but so does communism.
I wasnt aware that this was a discussion that required handholding so the conscending comment was unwarranted. Second since your placing occupation on the table, what is yours?

As for your proof about flu shots not working:
Its customary to present the source when citing works. Since You gave little reference, I have to defend my position using sources that i think you used.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jared Buffie View Post
Archives of Pediatric and Adolescent Medicine, Oct 2008: “significant influenza vaccine effectiveness could not be demonstrated for any season, age, or setting”
wfs
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18838647 note: Arch Pediatr Adolesc Med. 2008 Oct;162(10):943-51.
Now regarding that quoted line you present.. its from
In bivariate analyses, cases had lower vaccination rates than subcohorts. However, significant influenza VE could not be demonstrated for any season, age, or setting after adjusting for county, sex, insurance, chronic conditions recommended for influenza vaccination, and timing of influenza vaccination (VE estimates ranged from 7%-52% across settings and seasons for fully vaccinated 6- to 59-month-olds).
They were looking at the Statisical data hence "In bivariate analyses" to see when, where , who should have been vaccinated. If you looked further the key point mentioned was...
CONCLUSION: In 2 seasons with suboptimal antigenic match between vaccines and circulating strains, we could not demonstrate VE in preventing influenza-related inpatient/ED or outpatient visits in children younger than 5 years. Further study is needed during years with good vaccine match. Just proves that in 2003 -2004 2004-2005 years that vaccines that were generated did match up with the circulating strains..
I will explain this at the end.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jared Buffie View Post
American Journal of Respiratory and Critical Care Medicine, Sept 2008: “no decrease in deaths from influenza and pneumonia despite the fact that vaccination rates have risen from 15% in 1980 to 65% now”
sept 08 had to published articles regarding flu... neither of them had that specific notation in them. Please double check.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jared Buffie View Post
National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Disease: “We conclude that frailty selection bias and use of non-specific endpoints such as all-cause mortality have led cohort studies to greatly exaggerate vaccine benefits”
No date or year or other reference to the orgin of the quote cannot be found. Please cite.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jared Buffie View Post
Cochrane Database of Systemic Reviews, 2006: A review of 51 studies involving 260000 children found no evidence that the flu vaccine is any more effective than a placebo
This is taken from the Cochrane vaction project
The entire quote is as such
A report released by the Cochrane Collaboration in January 2006 concluded that there was no evidence that injecting children six to 23 months of age with the influenza vaccine was any more effective than a placebo. After a review of 51 studies involving more than 260,000 children, including 17 papers translated from Russian, the co-author of the study and coordinator of the Rome-based Cochrane Vaccine Project, Dr. Thomas Jefferson, concluded that mandates to vaccinate babies is based on very little evidence.
It is talking about a specific group of the population in a group that traditional doesnt get vaccinated for season flu. But are looking at the outcome need to vaccinate that population.
I cannot pull up the specific study but if someone has a paid subscription.. here is the study.
Gray, S., Demicheli, V., Di Pietrantonj, C., Harnden, A. R., Jefferson, T., Matheson, N. J., Rivetti, A. “Vaccines for preventing influenza in healthy children,” The Cochrane Database of Systematic Reviews 1 (2006).


Now vaccinations decision for SEASONAL FLU.. The annual flu shot contains three separate strains: two influenza A strains and one strain of influenza B. Most commonly, two strains are the same as the preceding year’s shot, one new strain is selected each year; after tracking the top three strains that are active worldwide and selected on which of the three is going to be the most virulentand then is modified in the lab through the reassortment process before it is added to the seasonal shot. Some years this decision is solid and correct, some years its not and incorrect and the vaccines are not efficient and effective for the actual prevalent flu.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jared Buffie View Post
So should we base mass immunization policy on tradition and dogma, or peer-reviewed literature? And I agree... this is exhausting. But thanks for pointing out the fact that there are no studies, backing the recommendations made.
And yours was?

But for the sake of balance ..
http://www.cochrane.org/reviews/en/ab001269.html wfs
Influenza vaccines are effective in reducing cases of influenza, especially when the content predicts accurately circulating types and circulation is high. Which means... if you have the RIGHT STRAIN YOU HAVE THE RIGHT VACCINE.. ITS EFFECTIVE AS AN OUTCOME.
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Last edited by Frank E Morel : 11-07-2009 at 01:59 PM.
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Old 11-12-2009, 02:03 PM   #52
Randy Hill
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Re: swine flue true statistics

Just got the vaccine today as a shot in my right deltoid. I feel fine but hate being a guinea pig.
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Old 11-12-2009, 05:13 PM   #53
Veronica Carpenter
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Re: swine flue true statistics

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Originally Posted by Eric Montgomery View Post
"so health officials can respond more quickly to the outbreak, which, allegedly, has killed more than 1,000 people in the United States."

How many people have died of the common cold/flu/pneumonia during this same time period? My guess is it's a number a lot bigger than 1,000. Unfortunately there's no cold or pneumonia vaccines for the medical industry to get rich off of....I can't help but wonder who benefits every time a "crisis" is announced.
And how many people are still alive and haven't received any type of flu vaccine?
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Old 11-12-2009, 05:39 PM   #54
Frank E Morel
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Re: swine flue true statistics

day 16 after intra nasal... no second head growing, nose didnt fall off...
and still breathing.
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Old 11-12-2009, 07:12 PM   #55
Tom Fetter
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Re: swine flue true statistics

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Originally Posted by Frank E Morel View Post
day 16 after intra nasal... no second head growing, nose didnt fall off...
and still breathing.
give it time, Frank. You'll die eventually.
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Old 11-12-2009, 09:47 PM   #56
Marcus Allen
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Re: swine flue true statistics

I'm 3 weeks out from intra nasal H1N1 and injected seasonal vaccines. I have no side effects.

I work immersed in the high risk areas for H1N1 and seasonal flu. Nursing homes, low income, rural areas, you name it.

No flu. No sniffles. No missed work.

+1 for anecdotal evidence
-1 for irrational fear of widespread conspiracies and BigPharm plots to take over the world! :stir:
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Old 11-13-2009, 03:03 AM   #57
Jason Scheffler
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Re: swine flue true statistics

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank E Morel View Post
day 16 after intra nasal... no second head growing, nose didnt fall off...
and still breathing.
Never mind the nose, as long as nothing else fell off you'll be fine.
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Old 11-13-2009, 04:36 AM   #58
Camille Lore
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Re: swine flue true statistics

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Old 11-13-2009, 12:32 PM   #59
Darrell E. White
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Re: swine flue true statistics

Sigh...another vaccination thread. On the day that USA Today reports latest CDC findings, 540 children dead from H1N1 (seasonal flu usually results in ~80 childhood deaths). Seasonal flu hits the elderly and the infirm much harder; H1N1 is unusual in that it is much harder on the young. FWIW seasonal flu killed 37,000 Americans in 2008, the vast majority of those being either elderly or otherwise ill.

This thread also appears on a day when the Cleveland Plain Dealer reports that we had the highest reported incidence of MUMPS in decades this year. Mumps for Heaven's sake! That's one of the 'M's in the MMR vaccine. This on top of other reports of Pertussis, "whooping cough", once the killer of 10's of thousands of children each year, almost unheard of until nonsense like that above about vaccines.

Each year a flu vaccine is released that is the closest guess as to which flu strain will cause that season's flu. Seasonal flu is influenza 'B', while H1N1 is influenza 'A' (that's why Tamilflu works). The vaccines that worked less well historically were such because health workers 'guessed' wrong on the strain.

Sheesh. When do we start to hear about such important stuff like 'eye of newt' or rubbing crystals, both of which have as much value as the "vaccines are dangerous" stuff.


Sigh...another vaccine thread...
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Old 11-14-2009, 09:46 AM   #60
Robert Pierce
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Re: swine flue true statistics

Agree with Darrell, thanks for mentioning those new data.

One correction, seasonal flu is most often influenza A H3N2. The vaccine is chosen according to the best guesses of the strains of influenza B, influenza A H3N2, and influenza A H1N1 (not the H1N1 "swine flu" currently discussed) that are likely to appear that season based on the epidemiology of flu infections the previous season. Tamiflu works against A and B in general, but over the last few years, the endemic H3N2 has become highly resistant to Tamiflu; this is the rationale for limiting widespread use of Tamiflu with this new H1N1 epidemic.
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