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Exercises Movements, technique & proper execution

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Old 08-18-2008, 06:49 PM   #1
Shane Skowron
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Pulls holding me back on Clean/Snatch

I searched through all the threads on cleans and pulls but I didn't see my question answered. If it's been posted already just let me know.

So the high pull is holding me back on my max efforts on both the clean and snatch. I know you're supposed to be able to FS and OHS more than you can Clean and Snatch, but I don't even feel my legs are being taxed all that much when I go heavy on the Clean and Snatch. When I try to go heavy I just can't get the bar past my waist.

So is this normal, and what can I do to fix it? I think the obvious answers are do clean pulls, snatch pulls, HSCs, and PCs, but anything else? And what is it exactly that's holding me back? Is it my hip speed/strength, back speed/strength...?
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Old 08-19-2008, 07:26 AM   #2
Jason M Struck
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Re: Pulls holding me back on Clean/Snatch

on the clean pull you may not need much more than 'waist' height.

your obvious answer is a good start.

you say you know xfront squat= clean, how do those numbers stack up?

The two keys for more weight more height are probably 1RM deadlift improvements and lots of power/speed work, which could be the pulls, or even plyos and med ball stuff.
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Old 08-19-2008, 08:03 AM   #3
Peter Terry Haas
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Re: Pulls holding me back on Clean/Snatch

Post some video in Digital Coaching; we'll see what you're doing and remedy from there.
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Old 08-19-2008, 02:35 PM   #4
Shane Skowron
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Re: Pulls holding me back on Clean/Snatch

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Originally Posted by Jason M Struck View Post
on the clean pull you may not need much more than 'waist' height.

your obvious answer is a good start.

you say you know xfront squat= clean, how do those numbers stack up?

The two keys for more weight more height are probably 1RM deadlift improvements and lots of power/speed work, which could be the pulls, or even plyos and med ball stuff.
I'm 5'8" 150#

Max front squat is around 220# or so. Max back squat around 260#, Deadlift around 325#. Max clean is 177#. Max snatch is 122#.

It could be a technique thing. I'll see if I can get some videos up.
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Old 08-19-2008, 05:07 PM   #5
Derek Maffett
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Re: Pulls holding me back on Clean/Snatch

How high are you trying to get that thing before pulling under? Full extension and shoulder shrug is all you need.
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Old 08-20-2008, 11:23 AM   #6
Jason M Struck
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Re: Pulls holding me back on Clean/Snatch

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Originally Posted by Shane Skowron View Post
I'm 5'8" 150#

Max front squat is around 220# or so. Max back squat around 260#, Deadlift around 325#. Max clean is 177#. Max snatch is 122#.

It could be a technique thing. I'll see if I can get some videos up.
yeah, it sounds like you could squeeze out another 20-30lbs.
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Old 08-21-2008, 07:38 AM   #7
Matt DeMinico
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Re: Pulls holding me back on Clean/Snatch

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shane Skowron View Post
I'm 5'8" 150#

Max front squat is around 220# or so. Max back squat around 260#, Deadlift around 325#. Max clean is 177#. Max snatch is 122#.

It could be a technique thing. I'll see if I can get some videos up.
Those are about my numbers, except I FS/BS/DL less, and weigh 165...

I'd have to see some video, but I'd suggest the following:

Do some clean pulls (and some snatch pulls), and videotape yourself doing them. After watching a lot of O-lifting videos on the site and by good O-lifting coaches online, you should know enough to be able to watch yourself in slow motion (play the video back on the camera immediately after your lift) to see what you're doing wrong. There's a lot of causes for a lot of things, and watching them on video you can usually pick them out.

If you get good at clean/snatch pulls, you'll train yourself to complete the extension.

If you're good with those, practice the catch. Start with just the bar (heck, start with just a PVC pipe or broomstick) at the front squat position. Pick your feet up off the floor (don't jump, just pick them straight up) and land in the bottom position. You shouldn't drop down but maybe an inch when you land. Practice getting good at this, where you can land in the bottom and be absolutely rock solid. Do the same with the snatch, start from overhead (with ONLY pvc or a broomstick, don't do this with weight, unless you dislike your shoulders), pick your feet straight up, and land.

Once you get good at that with PVC or a broomstick, start with just the bar at a hang position, and do as little movement as you need to get the bar weightless (at your strength, you'll probably start flatfooted, standing straight up, and the only movement you'll do is shrugging your shoulders up, coming up to your tip toes, and leaning back (the final final part of the extension)). Once you get it weightless, you yank yourself under and land in the bottom position, just like you did with the PVC/broomstick. Now put two 10 lb bumpers (total 65 lbs) on the bar and do the same, then move up to 85 lbs and do the same, etc... and make SURE you are yanking yourself under the bar, and not doing a "power clean". The point of these is to do as little movement (in the pulling portion) as possible, so you train yourself to land more and more weight at the absolute bottom position.

For me, I actually seem to do better at the snatch when doing this, I seem to be able to pull under on the snatch easily, where I suck at the pull under on the clean.

Depending on your level of strength, you may have to adjust your start position on the pulls, in the following order (smallest pull down to most pull):
  • Standing tall on tip-toes, leaned back at full extension, only movement is a shrug of shoulders.
  • Tall on tip-toes, standing straight up, movement is finish extension ("lean back") and shrug.
  • Standing straight up, movement is lean back to full extension, shrug shoulders, and come up to tip-toes.
  • Same as above, knees still straight all the time, just add a few degrees of hip bend (shoot your but back) at the start, as much hip bend as you need basically.
  • Add in a little bit of knee bend, as much as you need
  • You've added enough hip bend that you're at the power position in a hang
  • Go from the floor
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