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Old 06-29-2014, 01:22 PM   #1
Leon O'Regan
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help with olympic lifts?

hi guys
ive only been Olympic lifting 4 months and everything to this point has been self taught as im not a member of a box.

I now seem to have hit a wall and cant seem to progress my numbers....
well at least with the snatch- if I put 55kg on the bar I can complete successfully 4 out of 5 lifts , but at 60kg I don't even seem close! often not even progressing past the pull to get under the bar (maybe a confidence thing). its annoying as I can muscle snatch 50kg and overhead squat 70kg so feel I should be doing more!!!!
my clean numbers im still edging up,

BUT ANY HELP ON EITHER LIFT FROM SOMEONE MORE EXPERIANCED WOULD BE GREATLY RECIEVED...

snatch...
front view - http://youtu.be/daiEw3KfGB0
side view - http://youtu.be/iBBMAvqneSE

clean...
front view - http://youtu.be/nMJ-hjx_7lk
side view - http://youtu.be/b-Y1Wn2ujz4

thanx in advance for any advice
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Old 06-29-2014, 05:16 PM   #2
David Meverden
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Re: help with olympic lifts?

You're not doing too bad on the snatch for being self taught. But you do have things to fix:

SNATCH
1) You're letting the bar get way too far out in front. It should stay really close to you and skim your thighs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rZV5P3cAa4#t=0m57s (WFS)
2) You're hips come up too fast. You are setting up OK but you aren't forcing your hips to stay in that position as you start to pull. It will feel weaker to force your hips to stay lower; that's OK. It sets you up for a better 2nd pull (the middle part where you extend your hips) which is where your real power comes from.

As for not getting under 60kg that's mostly psychological (getting more comfortable in a lower catch position would help too): you need to be more aggressive and not let the weight intimidate you. Next time you get 60 kg on there DEMAND from yourself that no matter how heavy it feels you WILL pull yourself under it. Make that--not completing the lift--your goal. Just get under it.

No time for clean comments right now. I'll get back to it if else doesn't do it justice.
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Old 06-30-2014, 02:54 AM   #3
Blair Robert Lowe
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Re: help with olympic lifts?

You're missing the whole setup of the first pull.

Notice the bar contacts your hip (be it brush or bang) in the snatch nor does it contact anywhere on the thigh or hip during the clean.

There are a few things you can work on.

1. Snatch or clean grip DL before the actual snatch or clean. This reinforces the proper bar path.

2. Snatch/Clean halting DL. So from the floor, pull to above knee and pause. Then lift. For now I would work on pulling past the knee rather than below the knee.

3. Making sure you are competent with executing the snatch or clean from the hang at the power position. Then mid thigh. Then above knee. Then below knee.

4. Make sure the snatch touches your hips, your pubis. The clean will touch anywhere from mid thigh to your hips. This is of much debate depending on which camp of lifting you adhere to. Really, just touch your upper leg somewhere. For beginners, straight arms touching the thighs. You can worry about hip cleaning once you've figured out how to do a textbook clean.

As David said, the bar is getting away from you because you shoot your *** up (stripper pull) and the bar isn't close to your body. Thus you will have to end up chasing the weight as it's forward your center of mass. Thus, you miss it.
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Old 07-04-2014, 10:49 AM   #4
Leon O'Regan
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Re: help with olympic lifts?

thanx for the responses guys

I was under the impression (and remember its self taught from you tube and readings) that bouncing off your thighs was wrong so I try not too. but if this is recommended then ill try make a conscious effort to make contact

as for practising from the hang position... I already do this and think that's what has got me this far! from above the knee I can hang squat snatch 50kg and hang squat clean 80kg, but seem to lose form from the floor as my lower back wants to take over
my lower back proportionally is a lot stronger- weighing 74kg now I can only back squat 120kg, front squat 100kg but can deadlift 175kg!!!

so is there anything else to help/practise?
these lifts are my main focus at the minute as id set myself a goal/challenge this year to have a x2.5 bodyweight total. (based on bodyweight snatch @ 72kg and c&j @ 108kg). I know this isn't much for most (and I need to up my squats) but from no previously lifting id be happy.
do you guys think this is realistic/achievable?
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Old 07-04-2014, 02:07 PM   #5
Blair Robert Lowe
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Re: help with olympic lifts?

Some lifters bang. It works for some people.

I'm not saying bang, I'm saying you make some contact. Brush. It should skim up ^ not out <.

Yes, your goals are reasonable. 2.5xBW total is just above a BW Snatch and BW+ CJ.

DL doesn't mean **** in Weightlifting. Snatch or Clean DL do but not a DL with a high hip start and in mix grip.

Do you have longish legs? That's common in people who DL a lot more than they squat. It's also common in those with undeveloped squats (haven't squatted much).

Hang cleaning 80 with a FS of 100 is pretty decent. It'll probably get better once you learn how to keep the bar closer.

http://blog.vulcanstrength.com/2014/...should-be.html That should fix your whole bar touching the thighs or hips.
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Old 07-04-2014, 02:15 PM   #6
Marshall Flagg
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Re: help with olympic lifts?

Not to use them for training tool videos per se but Hookgrip is the encyclopedia of slow motion lifting videos. It gives a good idea of how, where and when these lifters contact their body with the bar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJxY...AEn-hWTLUtfdoA

It can be done without contact but...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISvwEH3N9Bw

Anyway, weightlifting is hard. Keep at it.
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Old 07-05-2014, 08:32 AM   #7
David Meverden
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Re: help with olympic lifts?

Did nobody mentioned early arm bend and low rack position for the clean? Maybe I missed it.

On the clean your arms are bending early and you're racking it with elbows way too low. Get your chest and elbows up. You probably need mobility work to get significantly better there. For a drill I like tall cleans a lot:
http://www.catalystathletics.com/exe...exerciseID=150
http://vimeo.com/48326359
(both WFS)
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Old 07-05-2014, 10:38 AM   #8
Keith Miller
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Re: help with olympic lifts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leon O'Regan View Post
thanx for the responses guys

I was under the impression (and remember its self taught from you tube and readings) that bouncing off your thighs was wrong so I try not too. but if this is recommended then ill try make a conscious effort to make contact

as for practising from the hang position... I already do this and think that's what has got me this far! from above the knee I can hang squat snatch 50kg and hang squat clean 80kg, but seem to lose form from the floor as my lower back wants to take over
my lower back proportionally is a lot stronger- weighing 74kg now I can only back squat 120kg, front squat 100kg but can deadlift 175kg!!!

so is there anything else to help/practise?
these lifts are my main focus at the minute as id set myself a goal/challenge this year to have a x2.5 bodyweight total. (based on bodyweight snatch @ 72kg and c&j @ 108kg). I know this isn't much for most (and I need to up my squats) but from no previously lifting id be happy.
do you guys think this is realistic/achievable?
Technically, you shouldn't bang the bar off your thighs, but it should make some contact, a brush as mentioned.

I would have you do work off the floor, pulls to the knees. My old coach would have us do 3-5 reps. Pull off the floor, pause at the knees, slowly return to floor, reset then next rep. This will surely work that pull so your back does not take over. The pause should be a solid 5-6 sec count (1 Mississippi, etc), so don't just get there, stop and lower. Get to knees, hold 5-6, or even 10 seconds, then slowly lower!!
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Old 07-06-2014, 03:59 AM   #9
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Re: help with olympic lifts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Meverden View Post
Did nobody mentioned early arm bend and low rack position for the clean? Maybe I missed it.

On the clean your arms are bending early and you're racking it with elbows way too low. Get your chest and elbows up. You probably need mobility work to get significantly better there. For a drill I like tall cleans a lot:
http://www.catalystathletics.com/exe...exerciseID=150
http://vimeo.com/48326359
(both WFS)
His poor squat exacerbates the elbows problem. If he sorts it out (get's his hips in between his feet, keep the entire back arched) then the elbows won't be such a huge issue.

Slightly controversial but I prefer to keep the elbows a bit down in the rack position. Paired with keeping a full grip on the bar, it puts the load on the back and takes the pressure off the neck.

http://www.accademiaitalianaforza.it...CAO_Lei_FS.jpg (WFS)
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Old 07-06-2014, 05:52 AM   #10
Blair Robert Lowe
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Re: help with olympic lifts?

Struan, so long as you can keep the bar racked on your shoulders, I see no problem with having the elbows lower.

So long as someone doesn't lose the rack as they dip.

I believe Jim Schmitz, one of the leading American authorities in WLing has said the same thing in articles on IronMind.

Quote:
The most common question asked is, “Where should my elbows be?” The answer is, “It depends on you.” What I mean by that is if the bar is resting correctly on the clavicles and deltoids, then ideally your elbows should be down at about nipple height and in front of you, not at your sides, but this depends on your arm proportions (forearm and upper-arm lengths) and wrist and shoulder flexibility. Ultimately, it’s what feels best for you for pushing upward most efficiently and with the most power.
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