CrossFit Discussion Board  

Go Back   CrossFit Discussion Board > CrossFit Forum > Fitness
CrossFit Home Forum Site Rules CrossFit FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-01-2015, 11:08 PM   #11
Blair Robert Lowe
Member Blair Robert Lowe is offline
 
Blair Robert Lowe's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Sacramento  CA
Posts: 7,948
Re: Additional (heavy) lifts rep scheme

^^ This.

More important stuff, less silly tomfoolery.

I do understand that some people find working out in a group to be better for motivation and fun.

Working up to a Heavy Single, or Triple, or 5 is fun.

Sets across is work. Sometimes a soul sucking grind where you can't wait until you're done. "Only X more reps/sets to go and I'm done, yay!"

Lifting twice per week may be enough if you've plateau'd, or older, or are less concerned about gainz or have time/recovery constraints.

Bare in mind, a Westside or full 531 lift day has a crapton of accessories bundled with it compared to Squat 5 sets up or across, move on. That is a stark difference.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2015, 03:50 PM   #12
Chris Mason
Banned Chris Mason is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Charlottesville  VA
Posts: 4,708
Re: Additional (heavy) lifts rep scheme

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony Giurato View Post
That part I know (I've read the boards for a long time). What I don't know is at what point would more work be detrimental. CrossFit Football has a workout scheme that involves:
  • 7 heavy lifts a week, spread out over 4 days.
  • 5 short to medium length, high intensity metcons.
If I remember correctly, it also involves doing the same weight for 3x5 and is a smooth linear progression.

Ignoring my Saturdays, I am doing
  • 2.5 heavy lifts a week, spread out over 3 days
  • 3 high intensity metcons of varying length
  • 1 moderate intensity steady-state row or jog
The heavy days typically are 5 sets of 1, 3, or 5, but they are ascending sets. Comparing that to my days when I was doing SS, it seems much easier and less taxing that sets across. I do realize that it isn't fair to directly compare two different programs like this. But it does seem like there is a very big difference in volume.

Does my logic seem Ok that I should be able to handle a lifting day on Saturdays and see a benefit? I sometimes feel a bit beaten up on Thursday or Friday, but after taking Friday as a rest day I feel good to go on Saturday.
What do you mean by 7 heavy lifts?
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2015, 04:02 PM   #13
Chris Mason
Banned Chris Mason is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Charlottesville  VA
Posts: 4,708
Re: Additional (heavy) lifts rep scheme

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony Giurato View Post
That part I know (I've read the boards for a long time). What I don't know is at what point would more work be detrimental. CrossFit Football has a workout scheme that involves:
  • 7 heavy lifts a week, spread out over 4 days.
  • 5 short to medium length, high intensity metcons.
If I remember correctly, it also involves doing the same weight for 3x5 and is a smooth linear progression.

Ignoring my Saturdays, I am doing
  • 2.5 heavy lifts a week, spread out over 3 days
  • 3 high intensity metcons of varying length
  • 1 moderate intensity steady-state row or jog
The heavy days typically are 5 sets of 1, 3, or 5, but they are ascending sets. Comparing that to my days when I was doing SS, it seems much easier and less taxing that sets across. I do realize that it isn't fair to directly compare two different programs like this. But it does seem like there is a very big difference in volume.

Does my logic seem Ok that I should be able to handle a lifting day on Saturdays and see a benefit? I sometimes feel a bit beaten up on Thursday or Friday, but after taking Friday as a rest day I feel good to go on Saturday.
What do you mean by 7 heavy lifts?
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2015, 10:04 AM   #14
Ludovic Deguy
Member Ludovic Deguy is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Versailles  France
Posts: 68
Re: Additional (heavy) lifts rep scheme

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blair Robert Lowe View Post
^^ This.

More important stuff, less silly tomfoolery.

I do understand that some people find working out in a group to be better for motivation and fun.

Working up to a Heavy Single, or Triple, or 5 is fun.

Sets across is work. Sometimes a soul sucking grind where you can't wait until you're done. "Only X more reps/sets to go and I'm done, yay!"

Lifting twice per week may be enough if you've plateau'd, or older, or are less concerned about gainz or have time/recovery constraints.

Bare in mind, a Westside or full 531 lift day has a crapton of accessories bundled with it compared to Squat 5 sets up or across, move on. That is a stark difference.
I didn't say lifting twice a week, I said "lifting heavy twice a week".

By lifting heavy twice a week I mean trying to max out twice a week on a big lift (one squat / deadlift variation and one press variation), if possible with 3 days between the two heavy sessions.

Accessory work is not "heavy" work per se.

Strength endurance stuff like we do a lot in Crossfit is not heavy work, even if this is 15-20 reps total in a "heavy" metcon or so.

Heavy means you work up to a load you will lift ONCE this day.

Trying to find a new max EVERY week, TWICE a week means your strength training is pretty intense and is not at all a strength maintenance rythm.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2015, 02:58 PM   #15
Chris Mason
Banned Chris Mason is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Charlottesville  VA
Posts: 4,708
Re: Additional (heavy) lifts rep scheme

If you are maxing out on 7 movements per week that is going to be excessive long term. It will still work while you are relatively weak, but the stronger you get the more you are taxing your body's essentially static ability to recover from high intensity lifting. That is why Louie Simmons initially created the DE day. The VAST majority relatively strong lifters cannot handle maxing out more than once per week for their upper or lower body. It leads to stagnation and or overtraining.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2015, 02:37 AM   #16
Ludovic Deguy
Member Ludovic Deguy is offline
 
Profile:
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Versailles  France
Posts: 68
Re: Additional (heavy) lifts rep scheme

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Mason View Post
If you are maxing out on 7 movements per week that is going to be excessive long term. It will still work while you are relatively weak, but the stronger you get the more you are taxing your body's essentially static ability to recover from high intensity lifting. That is why Louie Simmons initially created the DE day. The VAST majority relatively strong lifters cannot handle maxing out more than once per week for their upper or lower body. It leads to stagnation and or overtraining.
Even for weakest lifters, it is very unlikely that anyone except a total beginner can put PRs on several lifts every week.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2015, 12:23 AM   #17
Blair Robert Lowe
Member Blair Robert Lowe is offline
 
Blair Robert Lowe's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Sacramento  CA
Posts: 7,948
Re: Additional (heavy) lifts rep scheme

Quote:
I didn't say lifting twice a week, I said "lifting heavy twice a week".

By lifting heavy twice a week I mean trying to max out twice a week on a big lift (one squat / deadlift variation and one press variation), if possible with 3 days between the two heavy sessions.
I meant to infer lifting HEAVY. I don't really give a damn about lifting metcon or assistance work weights.

By "Heavy" I'd say 70%+ for volume or 85-90%+ for intensity (low reps).

Chris is on the right track when we are talking about PL because any decent PLer is going to be lifting some heavy *** weights. Not talking about 1.5xBW BenchPresses or 2xBW Squats or 2.5xBW Deads at your typical CF box. That's decent at a CF box and amateur for a PLer/SM type.

I've always wondered how many of the lifters at WSBB are working everday jobs compared to some PLers in state sponsored countries who run something more along the volume/Sheiko (Russia, KAZ, etc).
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2015, 06:54 PM   #18
Shawn M Wilson
Member Shawn M Wilson is offline
 
Shawn M Wilson's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Tyler  TX
Posts: 1,118
Re: Additional (heavy) lifts rep scheme

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blair Robert Lowe View Post
I've always wondered how many of the lifters at WSBB are working everday jobs compared to some PLers in state sponsored countries who run something more along the volume/Sheiko (Russia, KAZ, etc).
Haha if I knew when I was 14 what I know now I would have enjoyed the free food and sleep at home and lifted a ton more
__________________
Pastor - Saved by Grace - Building the Body & Soul one day at a time!
My Log ****Open 12.1 (94) 12.2 (60) 12.3 (196) 12.4 (172) 12.5 (80)
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2015, 01:08 AM   #19
Blair Robert Lowe
Member Blair Robert Lowe is offline
 
Blair Robert Lowe's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Sacramento  CA
Posts: 7,948
Re: Additional (heavy) lifts rep scheme

Quote:
haha if I knew when I was 14 what I know now I would have enjoyed the free food and sleep at home and lifted a ton more
No lie, so many missed gainz. I lifted in college but I coulda done so much more volume as well (be it living at home or roommates). I thought I lifted enough in college but I could have done so much more (and less bull**** though overtime I weeded that crap out).

In school, obviously I could lift in the time alotted during weight training class. 60-90 minutes? But hell, I coulda been in the gym my freshman year or in junior high (because let's face it, I didn't do that much after school in JH).

My parents would have gone bonkers with the food bill though. They complained about it back then and I didn't even lift until my senior year. I was around only #120 until the summer of senior year.

note - I did have a PT job though I'm pretty sure that 80% of that went to buying and eating food. (it was also somewhat helpful that I could buy things at 10% above cost at Longs). Carl's Jr, TacoBell, pizza, mexican fastfood place. I shoulda just went to the store and bought steaks and hamburgers instead.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-09-2015, 07:41 AM   #20
Andrew Bell
Member Andrew Bell is offline
 
Andrew Bell's Avatar
 
Profile:
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Houston  TX
Posts: 4,021
Re: Additional (heavy) lifts rep scheme

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blair Robert Lowe View Post
No lie, so many missed gainz. I lifted in college but I coulda done so much more volume as well (be it living at home or roommates). I thought I lifted enough in college but I could have done so much more (and less bull**** though overtime I weeded that crap out).

I shoulda just went to the store and bought steaks and hamburgers instead.
My god yes to these 2 statments. Think of the possibilities.....
__________________
| Log (wfs) |
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
help needed heavy lifts are regressing!!! Jacob Gallaway Fitness 9 04-01-2009 08:00 AM
Moody after heavy lifts Jason Naubur Fitness 11 02-07-2009 05:04 PM
Heavy lifts while on very low carbs. Jason Naubur Nutrition 12 06-13-2008 10:45 AM
Toes cramping during heavy lifts Sharon Miller Health and Medical Issues 2 05-22-2008 02:12 PM
Hyperextended joints and heavy lifts David Aguasca Exercises 1 03-21-2007 08:27 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:53 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
CrossFit is a registered trademark of CrossFit Inc.