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Old 03-12-2015, 08:32 AM   #51
Dare Vodusek
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Re: solid supplements to take

http://examine.com/supplements/Bulbine+natalensis/

Seems promising and safe enough, so I'll give it a try, most likely it cant do me no harm, unless the results will be placebo oriented.
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Old 03-12-2015, 08:27 PM   #52
Chris Mason
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Re: solid supplements to take

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dare Vodusek View Post
http://examine.com/supplements/Bulbine+natalensis/

Seems promising and safe enough, so I'll give it a try, most likely it cant do me no harm, unless the results will be placebo oriented.
Well, they did note adverse effects in the article you linked to. I think any benefit is not worth the risk in this case.
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Old 03-13-2015, 02:23 AM   #53
Blair Robert Lowe
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Re: solid supplements to take

Quote:
in rat studies, it appears to both be quite potent in increasing testosterone but also appears to damage organ function in a similar manner to a steroid cycle.
If you read later on it shows elevated blah blah blah of kidneys and liver, which is pretty common in oral steroids. No idea if it's harsh as any methylated anabolic/androgen but again there is that risk. That's also why some users stay away from the oral steroids though they vary on how hard they are on your liver (think the stronger the steroid, the hardest on your liver besides dosage).

If you are truly serious about pursuing such an endeavor, I would look into all the liver support meds and herbs out there. People talk about Milk Thistle but I know there is stronger stuff out there, especially for cirrhosis and hepatitis patients.

And definitely no medium to heavy alcohol imbibing during.

Also, it's well known in the research that after cycling off, your hormones get all messed up as well. So a steroid cycle might boost your Test levels way up but then your body stops producing Test. I'm guessing the same thing would occur with this herb. It's not like ginseng or maca or other adaptogens in which you don't really need to cycle off.

Sometimes users bounce back and sometimes they have bad luck and their hormones are all F'd up and never recover and then the only option is TRT use or praying that Clomid and HCG brings them back (maybe).

I mean, maybe if your Test levels were weak to begin with or if a guy had ED issues (and all other options had been explored like sleep, food, stress, vitD and zinc and other supplements, bloodwork) but you didn't quite want to sign up for TRT for life. Again, even with TRT and steroid use, there is a ****ton of documentation out there on it.

I see you can buy this stuff off Amazon though Mike Mahler also sells a supplement with this ingredient. Relatively inexpensive but I don't know what $$ is like in Slovenia, especially when I hear steroids are sometimes OTC in some countries like Ukraine.

I mean, you'd probably want to go get your bloodwork done first. That is what is typically done with TRT anyways.

I mean if your levels are good and your manhood function is Good2Go, I wouldn't gamble with that. Especially if you are a sexual Teratophoneus like me (smallest of the Tyrannosaurid family at only 20 feet long compared to the T-rex at nearly twice the length).

Anabolic and androgen usage isn't free on your body. If you read into it, it's a careful balance of cycles and post cycles and taking this and that and blah blah blah and hoping it doesn't all FUBAR.
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Old 03-13-2015, 03:03 AM   #54
Dare Vodusek
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Re: solid supplements to take

I might have jump too soon on this ****...thou it is not too late, my order is still in the delivery so I've started taking it yet. I also have no interest in using steroids, I value my health a lot.

I thought its safe and that it will be a good test to see if my test level is really too low, but I guess its time to do some blood work.

I've read test levels fluctuate during the day, what are the best conditions to do the test and how to interpritate the results?
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Old 03-13-2015, 11:13 AM   #55
Frank E Morel
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Re: solid supplements to take

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dare Vodusek View Post
I might have jump too soon on this ****...thou it is not too late, my order is still in the delivery so I've started taking it yet. I also have no interest in using steroids, I value my health a lot.

I thought its safe and that it will be a good test to see if my test level is really too low, but I guess its time to do some blood work.

I've read test levels fluctuate during the day, what are the best conditions to do the test and how to interpritate the results?
First thing. The article and study cited ?, Has this .....
A preliminary investigation into humans (poster presentation found here,[9] financially supported by Sports Nutrition Research LTD which produced the tested supplement) <- They have something to gain. Sales.
If you have a business ... You need sales. Thus, any study can be slanted in your Favour.

T levels - Testing. You need to do it in the morning within an hour of getting up of bed. Otherwise it skews abit.
Yes, t level fluctuations are wide during the day and during varies other activities, like baby holding, post sex, prolong cardio exercise,certain foods, drinking alcohol in quantity Vs having sex,masterbation, lifting heavy, aggressive posturing, getting quality sleep, stress reduction.

Kinda hard to control t levels when some of these activities work against you.

Supplements for raise t levels.
Some work for a short period of time, with minimal or just enough levels to make one feel like something is happening.

Zinc- most people are deficient In fact one normal ejactulation depletes male zinc levels nearly in half. Body's immune system and prostate gland are biggest consumes. What's controls prostate health? Test.

Vitamin d - this hormone - steroid Is found to help regulate estrogen receptors and a few hundred of body responses.
The understanding of vit d in the last 5 years alone has jumped a hundred times just in cardiovascular health is staggering.

Magnesium - again, most people are deficient as the primary source of replacement is dietary. If one is eating a whole food that is varies and not processed, then repacement is most likely optimal.
Mag helps vit d function -( remember that estrogen receptor regulation)
Is one of the key players in muscle contraction ( remember test levels increase production in lifting heavy and prolonged cardio exercise like distance activity )
Has muscle relaxation ability for repair- ( remember sleep)
Don't replace it, working out drops the level, Drink a beer , you **** it away.

The other stuff like tong kat Ali, yohimbe , maca root, trubulis are really adaptogens. Yes they kinda work ..... In the beginning then after awhile they don't. The problem here is purity, Unless your getting source direct, it's cut down to near nothing and replaced with fillers.


Steroids and health?
Cholestrol is a steroid, insulin is a steroid, cortical is a steroid,
Steroids are not necessialary an evil thing.
Hormone replacement therapy is a heavily regulated process, It's well proven that the body has levels where it functions without to much problems. Superceed those levels in either direction ... Problems occurs
Drive your car to the higher end of power band... Will ruin the engine or parts of it at some point. Drive it normally..... It goes a long time without issues

So what works...
Supplementing
Hcg hormone.... Increasing the signals to the testes to produce more test. This has its own problems.

Colmid. A fertilty medication that will do same as above. Problem with this med is it's hard on the eyes. Especially if your lifting weights , Intra ocular lining tears. Aka floaters are somewhat possible. Get floaters inside your eyes.... They re there for life.

T gel. Works but because it's absorptionis thru the skin, It's benefits is far less than the risks it creates. This route has properly created more problems for men than low t untreated. Doctors hand this **** like candy based on a single blood test without looking at the whole issue like weight, stress, diet, sleep and of course the other hormone relationship / functioning .

The spike-Injectable test works, can be dose to bloodwork adjusted (gel can't)
Can be adjusted when you want to come off, it's effects are easily seen in two weeks and be at desired levels in 6-8 weeks.

Lastly, The doctor. One who fully understand hormone replacement therapy and treats it as person specific vs a number and a way to appease patient who is complaining of multiple non decript issues.

I could go on dare.
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Old 03-13-2015, 02:01 PM   #56
Blair Robert Lowe
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Re: solid supplements to take

Nice, Frank.

Just talked to a buddy who is a buddy with Mike Mahler. Mahler says the stuff is to be cycled on/off but didn't say anything about using a post cycle.

Never heard Clomid ****s with the eyes. Hmm.

And in the words of my buddy, bloodwork first. Bloodwork during, bloodwork after.

Easy turnoff, I HATE HATE HATE needles.
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Old 03-14-2015, 12:00 AM   #57
Dare Vodusek
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Re: solid supplements to take

Good stuff guys, thanks! plenty of info for now Frank, will do the blood tests first and then work from there, I have no issues with needles

Which blood work to do exactly, only Test or shall I add something else?

I can do it withing 1h of waking up, found a nearby lab. Does it matter, for T values, what I do the night/day before? And what should I be doing to get the most accurate results possible?

I already take extra vitD and ZMA, would it be good to sack it for now? I am also currently out of the gym for 10 days.
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Old 03-14-2015, 09:25 AM   #58
Frank E Morel
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Re: solid supplements to take

]Good stuff guys, thanks! plenty of info for now Frank, will do the blood tests first and then work from there, I have no issues with needles

Which blood work to do exactly, only Test or shall I add something else?
-See pm

I can do it withing 1h of waking up, found a nearby lab. Does it matter, for T values, what I do the night/day before?
-Get some sleep and don't drink

And what should I be doing to get the most accurate results possible?
-eat normally , don't drink, don't get to fights with your significant other,
Limit the chick movie- lol. Avoid soy. Sleep.

I already take extra vitD and ZMA, would it be good to sack it for now? I am also currently out of the gym for 10 days
- stop them, Vit d will be a bit skewed as its stored in the fat so what you have been taking will be base line.
T can be down if your out of the gym that long.. So that will be a good starting point.
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Old 03-14-2015, 11:27 AM   #59
Dare Vodusek
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Re: solid supplements to take

Frank; "see pm", does that mean you've sent me some private stuff? As I did not receive any...

Do you think it would be better to wait then and do test when I get back to training? How long, a week, two, month?
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Old 03-14-2015, 12:25 PM   #60
Frank E Morel
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Re: solid supplements to take

Dare Vodusek;1250349]Frank; "see pm", does that mean you've sent me some private stuff? As I did not receive any...
Check again



Do you think it would be better to wait then and do test when I get back to training? How long, a week, two, month?
No. Do it soon to get a baseline of no influenced levels. Then 6-8 later repeat the necessary blood work to see what changes worked.
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