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Old 05-04-2006, 08:08 AM   #31
Jeff Gentry
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Hey Jeff B.

It is not my fault if you feel like i was bashing, I have no control of how you feel, as a general rule what i said is right a majority of the time folk's in the Army say "I'm in the Army" and most Marines when ask say "I'm a Marine", the amount of pride, honor and courage you have in your service mean's nothing it is a diffrence in the way we are trained.


By the way i have a few friend's in the Army, and i also did a 2 year stint in the Army myself so i have some knowledge of both side''s of the coin.

Oh and i was also over in Desert Storm, in the infantry my unit was actualy the unit that breeched the mine field to bring everyone else through, i have seen a little combat.


Jeff

(Message edited by Jeff Gentry on May 04, 2006)
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Old 05-04-2006, 12:12 PM   #32
Pete Barberi
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"I was in the Corps for 6 year's you join the Army and say "I'm in the Army", you become a Marine and say "I'm a Marine"."

Jeff-
Just listening in, and the above statement struck me as disrespectful, and not germane. What does this have to do with Military Combatives? 2 years in the Army, doesn't make you an expert. The grunts I work with, would still be in their qualification course, after 2 years. I noticed at jump school, that the ability to bark and do push ups among the few marines we had, did not necessarily
translate to a more profficient parachutist.

I'd like to know more about the Krav Maga side of this thread. The video I've seen, has everyone moving in excruciatingly slow motion. It didn't look realistic. Do you guys do alot of full speed drills and sparring during a typical workout? I'm sure I just saw a bad clip.

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Old 05-04-2006, 09:09 PM   #33
Jeff Gentry
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Hey Pete

I was responding to the question below posed by John Hoffman in regard's to a training diffrence between MACP and the MCMP, Jeff B. took it to be "bashing".

"THE USMC Core Values of Honor Courage and Commitment are deeply ingrained in the training. Core Values are tied-in to every technique through some type of learning about our Marine Corps' ethos (fraternization, hazing, suicide awarness, stress) and reinforced through guided discussions, warrior studies (Medal of Honor/Silver Star citations) and martial culture studies (Zulu, Apache, Samurai, Marine Raiders, Spartans). The idea is that it is tied to our fundamental transformation of the individual into a US Marine, which starts in Bootcamp/OCS and is continuous in every day of their time in uniform. It also helps to ensure through sound small unit level leadership that we create warriors, not thugs. Is there a similar series of tie-in value training with MAC?"

I was simply telling John that it is part of the way the Marine Corps does most everything in there training to give it some sort of Marine Corps spin, I do not feel that i was offensive in my answer, as for the "disrespectful" post, I was just stating were i was coming from as far as training in both service's so i have seen both side's of the coin to some extent, and I do not control how other's feel that's all up to them i have yet to be offended, maybe i just have a thicker skin.



Jeff

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Old 05-05-2006, 03:41 AM   #34
Jeff Bearden
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Jeff G,

Listen, I did take offense to your comment and maybe I over reacted a little, but I'm a proud soldier and the proud parent of a soldier and we are Warriors, both 11B, and I don't allow anyone to discredit that, especially when Soldiers are dying. The bottom line is this, I believe the Army has changed alot since you were in. The Army added an extra week to Basic Training to incorporate the teaching of the Army Values. They are related to everything that a Soldier does in training through guided discussions and Warrior studies. Then just a few years ago the Soldier's Creed and Warrior Ethos were developed and these are related to everything we do through guided discussions and Warrior studies. Also, not very long ago, the CSA said that every Soldier is a rifleman. Maybe he caught on to what has been successful in the Marine Corp. The current war we are fighting has forced even non-Combat Arms MOS's to fight. So, in light of all this, you can see that the Army has made a huge effort in engraining a Warrior mentality into every Soldier. The way the Army trains it's new Soldiers has changed drastically just in the last few years. Take some time and browse www.army.mil and see for yourself.

Thank you for your service. One team, one fight. Now, can we just get back to discussing MAC and MCMAP. Thanks.

Jeff B
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Old 05-05-2006, 08:38 AM   #35
Mike Corey
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yeah
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Old 05-05-2006, 09:08 AM   #36
John Hoffner
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All,
I recently returned from overseas, where I served with all our services and numerous Nations' service members in the Coalition Forces.
That's part of the reason I replied to the thread, we are one team anymore. I was just curious how the MAC was compared to MCMAP. Its good to hear about the Army's system. I'd also like to keep it on topic.
Bobbi,
Went to Krav Maga, very realistic, very hard training. I signed up that night. 'Nuff said.
Pete,
Nothing about Krav Maga struck me as slow-motion. It was very intense, lots of drills, combos, sparring, and hard core pt.
BTW, the ability to bark really loud and do lots of push-ups has actually helped me out in many, many situations. Some day I think it'll help me end hunger and provide for world peace.
It'll be sweet. Those skills however don't make me a better parachutist, parachutes are for the weak. I consider a good freefall with no chute just field expedient body hardening. Which ties back to the thread, I think...
Ok, so I also have a bad sense of humor, but seriously, we all appreciate the service of ALL military members, lets just keep that up, focus on our common enemies and all just get along.
Semper Fi...
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Old 05-05-2006, 09:31 AM   #37
Jeff Bearden
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Well put John.
I've been interested in Krav Maga for sometime myself. After all, wasn't it developed by The Israeli Army to fight bad guys in the street? It has to be good then.

P.S. I can bark pretty loud myself when I need to and magically things happen and get done. As for pushups, they increase bloodflow to the brain thereby allowing the one on the receiving end to think more clearly
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Old 05-05-2006, 03:13 PM   #38
Jeremy Jones
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Does the MAC and MCMAP cover grappling for subduing opponents?

I am a huge proponent of MA training for ALL branches. The more our military is forced to commit to 'policing' actions, the more the need to use unarmed combat to subdue, control, and apprehend.

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Old 05-07-2006, 02:31 PM   #39
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John-
You're cracking me up! I have gone to formal schools with Marines, and recently trained with a recon Marine who defected to CCT. Great guys, and yes, we should try to limit all this sibling rivalry. I'm jealous because I can't bark, and I think pushups are overated(IMO). I'd much prefer to smoke some of my snuffies with flutter kicks:-)
Krav sounds like something I'll try. I'm an ex-wrestler, with no martial arts backgound, but the older I get, the more I learn I have mix it up to get results. I always recall the SF guy in OEF, who was doing a room clearing on a HVT seizure, and he met this huge Taliban guy in the dark. As I remember, there was a life or death struggle, but our guy grappled for some time, then smoked his A$$ eventually. Atleast in OEF, we couldn't go into any town, without having the curious completely close in around us. Krav would probably be handy if someone gets aggressive in a crowd like that. Thanks for the 411!

This is a great thread!!!
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Old 05-07-2006, 03:40 PM   #40
Matthew Nielsen
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Just make sure the Krav class has a sparring component with hard contact. The Krav program at the gym I teach at has non-contact sparring, and IMO the first time they get punched in the face they are going to forget what they learned.


I think Krav can be great for self defense if trained right.

I bounced in a bar on Gate 2 st in Okinawa for 3 years. Marines like to fight, but not all are good at it. Not that much different that any other in shape athletes. I had a harder time working the door in a college town. A lot more juice heads on the football team that liked to fight just as much.

(Message edited by Matthew Nielsen on May 07, 2006)
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