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Old 12-18-2012, 04:24 AM   #1
Tyler Key
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Man I'm so confused..

Not sure if this is the right place for this but.

I'm very confused what program to follow to get the best results in strength for my sport; Rugby.

I need to be strong, fast, and conditioned.

I followed CFFB for a good while, then started reading through Westside theories and there practises, and it seems extremely good for rate of force development, strength encompassing total lower body.

I have been following westside based template for three weeks so far and I love it. I'm just not sure if it is the right thing to be doing.

CFFB being created by welboune who was in the NFL, similar sport to rugby, will obviously have very good crossover into NFL/rugby as it is was programmed for that, however westside is just programmed for getting strong. I have tried getting into contact with Rick scarpulla but no luck so far...talked to him but not gotten feedback.

What I am basically trying to figure out, is westside able produce crossover for rugby? Will it excel as compared to CFFB in terms of rugby strength? How would I go about programming it as such?

Conditioning, I can use CFFB based wods in either instance along with sprints and sleds. Mainly focusing on the best method of increasing strength.

Lifts and vitals:
Height: 174cm
Weight: 85kg
Age: 16

Back squat: 155kg / 341lb
Fronts squat: 120kg / 246lb
Bench: 100kg / 220lb
Press: Havent done for while...around 60kg / 130lb
Power clean: havent done 1rm for awhile...was around 95kg / 210lb
Deadlift: havent 1rm for while, was 180kg / 396lb
Jerk: 100kg / 220lb
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Old 12-18-2012, 06:54 AM   #2
David Alexander
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Re: Man I'm so confused..

My advice would be to try Westside in the off-season to really get your strength up. As the season gets near, switch to CFFB (or something similar), to work on your strength-endurance and work capacity up.
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Old 12-18-2012, 07:01 AM   #3
Robert Fabsik
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Re: Man I'm so confused..

I'm a big Westside fan, but both programs are pretty solid.

Before you switch to Westside, why do you want to leave CFFB? Are you making gains on CFFB? If not, why?

If you don't know those answers, you are just blindly leaving one program for another.
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Old 12-18-2012, 07:03 AM   #4
Paulo Santos
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Re: Man I'm so confused..

I'm doing Rick Scsrpulla's program and I used it to get me in shape for soccer. I was one of the older guys there and I was in the best shape. I would do the full program in the offseason with 1-2 MetCons per week to maintain your conditioning and about 8 weeks out, you should switch it up to more conditioning to get you ready for rugby season.

If you need any help with programming, ask away, or you can check my website on my signature or Golden Empire Training.
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Old 12-18-2012, 09:16 AM   #5
Andrew Bell
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Re: Man I'm so confused..

So you are 16 years old, 5'9, 187lbs, and you deadlift 400lbs, squat 341, but you don't think you are strong enough? Are there others around you with better stats?

Unless you are specializing in Power Lifting, I wouldn't think you are doing too bad. Stay the course bud and eat like a monster. CFFB is designed for people like you and it looks like you have had great gains. Truth is, the Professional program on there is loosely based on Westside principals.
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Old 12-18-2012, 10:08 AM   #6
Richard Colon
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Re: Man I'm so confused..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyler Key View Post
Not sure if this is the right place for this but.

I'm very confused what program to follow to get the best results in strength for my sport; Rugby.

I need to be strong, fast, and conditioned.

I followed CFFB for a good while, then started reading through Westside theories and there practises, and it seems extremely good for rate of force development, strength encompassing total lower body.

I have been following westside based template for three weeks so far and I love it. I'm just not sure if it is the right thing to be doing.
Stop fin' confusing fitness so much. You talk about CFFB, so let me ask. What is a good while? How long did you follow it? Then you mention Westside for 3 weeks and now you are searching again, wondering if it is right or not?

Show some discipline and dedication to a program, stick it out for MONTHS and you will know if it is working or not. If you're goals are clearly defined, then you will have all of the info you need. Stop searching, looking, distracting. All you are doing is finding an excuse to not work hard enough by searching for an easier way. If it works towards your goal, there is no easier way. There may be a better way, but not necessarily easier. If it is easy, then your goal isn't worth a damn.

Here are some simple rules to training, programming and the like. This is from personal experience, years (college track 15yrs ago, boxing training 22yrs ago) of lifting, training clients, seeing all sorts of people with performance capability, etc.

(in no particular order)
1. The best training program is the one you are not doing. So pick one and stick it out.

2. Define the goal, find a program that seems to be in line with that goal and stick it out long enough to either a) reap the rewards or b)know without a doubt, that the program isn't working for you.

3. Stop searching and do more lifting. Here is your Rugby training program. You can send me $ now if you wish, contact me via pm and I'll give you paypal info...

(I know jack about Rugby but I'll guess about what is important)
1. Squat. Do Back Squats and Front Squats. A lot of Front Squats. I like the transfer it has to O-lifts.
2. Stick with 4 simple O-lifts (and their variations). Snatch, Clean, Power Clean and Power Snatch
3. Jump a lot. Rather than Sprint, although sprinting is one of my favorite, I think you'll get enough specific 'fast running' in the sport specific aspect of Rugby. Jump a lot - and I don't mean high rep 24" box jumps. Do vertical jumps. Do Broad Jumps. Do the types of jump stuff you see on CFFB.
4. For push do only 3 things. Military Press (strict, overhead, call it what you want), Bench Press and pushups.
5. For pull do Heavy DBell or Heavy Barbell Rows for mass builder/strength and do pull-ups for general athleticism.
6. When you are bored or need more, do bodyweight stuff. More pushups and pullups. Add in some dips (rings aren't necessary).
7. Work on your mobility and stretch/rest/recovery, often. Don't let stuff get tight and out of order. Do it consistently.

For conditioning, use Kettlebells. I just like the 'contact' aspect of KBs, which sounds like a good transfer to Rugby. Nothing like a high rep/high volume KB complex banging against your forearms a bit, in the rack, held close to chest, etc.

Also, do jump rope. The best footwork tool in the business. Better than agility ladders, shuttles, etc. I'm not talking Double Unders. I mean boxing jump rope - multiple minutes of work.

That is all. Speed/specific footwork drills ala CFFB warm-up field work should be addressed in actual Rugby.

Reps, sets, days of week, etc? Of the above, chose 3-5 of those movements, 3-5 days per week, for 3-5 reps of the heavy stuff (barbells, o-lifts), resting as necessary. For bodyweight work, do 50 of everything. For conditioning, do it in 10 min (kind of arbitrary but its a good start) spurts. 5x2min sets, 10m amrap, 1min on/1min off for 5 total rounds, etc.

Do it for MONTHS. I guarantee it will improve you. Then evaluate. It may not fix everything but everything is a give and take. See what you've gained, what you've lost or what was stagnant. The only way is to stop typing and start lifting and moving. FOR MONTHS.
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Old 12-18-2012, 01:06 PM   #7
Aushion Chatman
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Re: Man I'm so confused..

Asking your questions here will not clear up any confusion IMO as each person who responds is going to have their own "Best Way" of doing things.

Think about what you're asking, is Westside a better preparation for Rugby than CFFB essentially. How would you propose that be tested? It would need to be either controlled testing or anecdotal. Controlled testing has NEVER happened for this comparison so that's out.

So you're left with personal experiences...first what do the top Rugby players do now? Have you researched that? Typically getting that kind of info is not easy but you never know until you try.

second, any workout program worth anything for athletics focuses on strength and conditioning. So a purely Powerlifting regimen is OUT in my opinion. You need a template that has conditioning built in, or you'll need to be very smart about how to adapt a program that doesn't have enough for a rugby player and build it in yourself.

I think talking with Coach Scarpulla is a GREAT idea...but you don't want too many varying opinions or it will just lead to more confusion.
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Old 12-18-2012, 07:28 PM   #8
Jason Wallis
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Re: Man I'm so confused..

Stronger is stronger, no matter which route you take to get there. Take two guys and put one on Westside and one on LP. When they reach a 500lb squat, they'll both be able to squat 500lbs. Which one will get you there faster has been debated to death here. The consensus is; the program that you follow and will stay with will yield the best results.
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Old 12-18-2012, 07:31 PM   #9
Matt Thomas
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Re: Man I'm so confused..

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Originally Posted by Jason Wallis View Post
the program that you follow and will stay with will yield the best results.
BOOM!

Pick the one you like the best and will enjoy doing the most. Stay with it for a long time.
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Old 12-18-2012, 07:51 PM   #10
Sean M Hutchinson
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Re: Man I'm so confused..

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Originally Posted by Matt Thomas View Post
BOOM!

Pick the one you like the best and will enjoy doing the most. Stay with it for a long time.
Best advice I have ever seen on a forum before. You sir have achieved Master Coaching status!
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