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Old 05-26-2012, 07:14 AM   #1
Evan Peikon
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The Outlaw Way

This is a question for those following Outlaw Programming.
What months were the ones that had less conditioning, but more strength Work? ( I believe Rudy referred to everyone as being ''out of shape'' then as a joke). Im assuming it was the winter months since those were farthest from comp season but wasn't sure.
I did see that the hatch squat cycle started in late december so i was wondering if that was the best strength portion?
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Old 05-26-2012, 07:29 AM   #2
Evan Peikon
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Re: The Outlaw Way

three other quick question:

1) About how long would it take to go through the days workout on average
2) He doesn't include warmups, so should those just be small mobility/ cardio
3) I remember him saying that the program is for games athletes and non games athletes. The only difference is that non games athletes should obi scale weights, and some volume. That being said what would be the best thing to drop if scaling volume
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Old 05-26-2012, 08:18 AM   #3
Thomas Baker
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Re: The Outlaw Way

I haven't followed Outlaw, but I'll give some of these a shot.

I believe the "strength" heavy work comes right around Games season and lasts all the way up to a few weeks out of the Open. The way his programming is set up you are constantly working 1) strength 2) olympic work/technique 3) tons of skill and 4) varied conditioning, all engines.

Warmups you should do your own thing. Get warm, work on skill, get loose, do core stuff.

When scaling volume, I would consider that he rarely programs out of the 8-12 minute zone. Of course, these are tough efforts. If it's taking you 25 minutes to do one of those, weights and sets must go down. It should be on a case-by-case basis though.

Hope that helped. I've been looking at his programming for a while now, but the others who follow it religiously should be able to help you out way more.
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Old 05-26-2012, 09:05 AM   #4
Evan Peikon
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Re: The Outlaw Way

I was thinking the volume of Oly+ Strength might get overwhelming. But if there were days i was run down i realized i could do the WOD from his main gym ''Outlaw Crossfit'' Which is essentially a scaled down version of the outlaw way.
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Old 05-26-2012, 09:19 AM   #5
Robert Walsh
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Re: The Outlaw Way

What are your current strength numbers? I tried to follow for a short while, but quickly realized my strength wasn't where I wanted it. For example, there was a WOD with 225 cleans for reps or 155lb front squats for 10+ reps. And it just didn't make sense for me to be doing such things at my level. Patience.

Strength is the base from which all the rest is built upon. It is the structural foundation. When one can squat 400+lbs, the muscles, connective tissue, etc are all better able to handle the conditioning beatdowns and such.

Sure, anyone can do this type of programming and make progress. But is it the most effective means of getting there? Probably not, in some cases.
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Old 05-26-2012, 09:58 AM   #6
Jordan Derksen
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Re: The Outlaw Way

I've been following since December.

I looked through the backlogs once and it only went to september. Even then he was still programming 4 conditioning/interval workouts a week. During the Open we did extra WODs and I can say that this year at regionals I felt better prepared than for any comp I've ever been too. The build up and taper he used worked really well for me.

The days workout takes about an hour (not including warmup and stretch out usually). Sometimes I'm in there for 2 depending on how tired I am. If you adhere to his programmed rests, which is really hard at first but you do get used to after a while, then it's not difficult to get it in. As for warmup he once said to stop doing all you're Kstar mobility work beforehand. Kind of defeats the purpose of doing it which is to get you're body in good positions before you start training. His warmup is basically you walk in, put weight on the bar and rip it a couple times, then go. I started doing it recently and it worked for a bit, now body parts and joints are starting to ache in a not so good way so I switched back to my old 15 minute warmup and mobility session. Plus sometimes it's hard to go for a 12 minute max snatch with no actual warmup other than I snatched 60kg a couple times. I think this all addresses number 2. If you're not an amazing games athlete already like a lot of the guys that follow then the workload is a lot so I'd suggest keeping a solid 15 minute warmup to take care of you're body.

Lastly, I wish I knew. I logged all the workouts for months and tried to find a pattern. There's a semblance of a template but it certainly isn't a simple one. I honestly haven't progressed too far in terms of actual strength from the program and I've been on it for 6 months. I'm starting to wonder if there's too much Oly lifting for me to handle, I go through periods of feeling beat to crap and feeling really good. I think I managed a 5kg PR on my clean and jerk during my time on his programming. I wish he would just post the journal article or even describe his template better so I could tailor his programming more to my own needs and understand how to work with it more but at this point I doubt he ever will. Usually if I start getting really beat up I dump the metcons first. I'll sometimes take the meat work out of the metcon, like today there's muscle ups and DB thrusters, and I'll take what I need to work on and do it in a not for time way. So I'll probably spend time on MU's today, but not in a overly stressful way like metcons can be.

And ya, the Oly+strength volume is high. Sometimes he programs things I think are nearly impossible. Like 2 snatches every 30s for 5 minutes at 75 or 80%. Or yesterday there was work up to heavy but not max Power Clean and Jerk with good form then do 2 EMOTM for 7 minutes. After set 2 I screwed the on the minute protocol and took the rest I needed to keep my technique.

Probably the only real problem I find is that you can't really ask questions or attempt to modify the program at all. Rudy's super busy so don't blame him either, he gives it away for free and is really busy with all the games athletes that matter (recently I've started to wonder if they even follow the program as written cause they post very irregularly. Probably not, Rudy himself said the program is just a template). I asked recently if there was an Outlaw strength only program and got burned for it. I'm not bitter because the rebuttal was funny but all I got was 'just do the program and STFU'. Well I've been at it for 6 months and I got a whole 2.5kg on my back squat; and that was me following pretty religiously. So after that I've now just started treating it like what it is, a template. If my affiliate WOD is good I'll jump in, if I don't feel like doing HSPU or a heavy pressing movement for the 3rd time in a row I just won't. In Fronings video the most interesting thing he said was that if he programs for himself ahead of time he stresses when he misses stuff. Basically, if you do Outlaw and you're not amazing already you WILL miss stuff, you will have too; for the longest time it stressed me out when I had to miss things. Now I'm taking the advice I got quite literally and just doing whatever the heck I want and trying to enjoy my training again.

Lastly, take a lot of this for what it is, just my own experience thus far. From what I can tell pretty much everyone else keeps PRing like crazy and it really works well for a lot of people. There's a bunch of other Outlaws on here, I'm sure some will chime in.

It was probably smart of you to post this here and not on Outlaw, I commend you for being that smart.

I apologize for the essay.
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Old 05-26-2012, 10:20 AM   #7
Evan Peikon
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Re: The Outlaw Way

Jordan, don't apologize. That was exactly what I was looking for. Very thorough/ covered just about everything.

And in regards to Robert. I believe he uses pripellins table for metcon loading. So that being said you can do the same and load the metcon based on your own 1rM. Not the theoretical 1rm of an ideal games athlete
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Old 05-26-2012, 11:47 AM   #8
Mike Piper
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Re: The Outlaw Way

I've been following for about 7-8 weeks at this point but I jumped all the way back to the beginning of the template in Sept. and have been working through it from there. The end game is going to be a retest of the Open WOD's when they would've come on the template. I figured that will be a pretty good set of data to evaluate progress when it's all over. At that point I plan to start following in "real-time". It was a little rough at first to cram it all but It's gotten better. Every once in awhile I'll skip something or add a small amount of goat work in, but I've been pretty good at sticking to it.
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Old 05-26-2012, 12:31 PM   #9
Thomas Baker
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Re: The Outlaw Way

Jordan,

Great post and thanks for your personal experience and insight. I actually read the blog quite regularly and saw you get ripped/called out/etc for no reason. I am not quite sure I understand the attitude of those that follow it. I am all for restraining blatantly dumb and obvious questions, but it seems than anyone who remotely asks for an individual tweak of some sort gets blasted and immediately shunned. I've never seen anything like it in other communities, such as OPT, etc.


Dude I have to say, if you only increased 2.5KG on your back squat in 6 months -- that's pretty ridiculous to me, although I know its a program for competitive CF's, either you have a 500+ squat, or there just isn't enough a) squatting or b) assistance work to help the squat. I'd say the same for the 5KG clean considering all the "barbell gymnastic work" although clearly it depends on your olympic #'s to start with, but still.

So, Jordan, if saying that your strength levels haven't increased too much is an accurate assessment (in 6 months), can you shed light on your improvement in conditioning? Say, baseline workouts before and after? And while we're on that, improvement in skill and skill efficiency (gymnastics)?
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Old 05-26-2012, 01:36 PM   #10
Evan Peikon
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Re: The Outlaw Way

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Originally Posted by Thomas Baker View Post
Jordan,

Great post and thanks for your personal experience and insight. I actually read the blog quite regularly and saw you get ripped/called out/etc for no reason. I am not quite sure I understand the attitude of those that follow it. I am all for restraining blatantly dumb and obvious questions, but it seems than anyone who remotely asks for an individual tweak of some sort gets blasted and immediately shunned. I've never seen anything like it in other communities, such as OPT, etc.


Dude I have to say, if you only increased 2.5KG on your back squat in 6 months -- that's pretty ridiculous to me, although I know its a program for competitive CF's, either you have a 500+ squat, or there just isn't enough a) squatting or b) assistance work to help the squat. I'd say the same for the 5KG clean considering all the "barbell gymnastic work" although clearly it depends on your olympic #'s to start with, but still.

So, Jordan, if saying that your strength levels haven't increased too much is an accurate assessment (in 6 months), can you shed light on your improvement in conditioning? Say, baseline workouts before and after? And while we're on that, improvement in skill and skill efficiency (gymnastics)?
I too recognized him name from getting called out. I feel like they intentionally act like D**ks on there and are pretty sarcastic. Im not going to post on there (even though it always says to) just because the community seems a bit elitist but ill prob start a log on here. and attesting PR's to the program won't mean a ton for me as I've only been cross fitting for a year and have been Pr'ing every other week or two.

But id also like to hear about your conditioning too jordan. You had said you felt more prepared for the open so I'm assuming that means your conditioning/ overall crossfit performance improved even if your maximal strength didn't?
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