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Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

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Old 01-10-2009, 09:42 PM   #31
Donald Lee
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Re: Battle of the Theorys is pure crossfit the best

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Originally Posted by Adam Scheiner View Post
Steven,
let me first say it's great to have you back here!

Now that, that is out of the way I have to say that I respectfully disagree with you about what works best for strength deficient crossfitters. In my experience with Gant's Hybrid and after discussing the issue with Jeff Martin among others I have figured out this hierarchy when it comes to what works best for people who's goal is to get stronger to do better at CF:

From Worst to best:
1. Starting Strength-
Positive- if the person is highly strength deficient this will remedy the problem
Negative- One, crossfitters are not power lifters and this is a power lifting program. Two, the person will lose metcon ability. Now many have commented that their metcon abilities have come back after a couple of weeks, but these people were experienced crossfitters AND why do a program where you have to lose your metcon. It's like I got an A in my film class and a C in my Psych class. So to get my Psych class grade up I concentrated on it more and got it up to an A, but my Film class went down to a B. Wouldn't I want an A in both if that's my goal?

2. MEBB/ Hybrid
Positive- Maintains metcon ability and increases strength
Negative- Metcons are always kept under 10 minutes, initially this will make you better at longer metcons. After long a period anything over 10 minutes will kick the **** out of you (my experience along with others).

3. Strength Bias Crossfit.
Positive- Improves metcon of all time lengths. Strength improves not just in 1RM, 3RM, and 5RM but various higher rep ranges.
Negative- It's being kept secret until Jeff and Bingo finish editing it for the crossfit journal. Sorry
Did you try mixing in longer metcons periodically? It's just like the whole Mark Twight thing. You do have to train the longer metcons periodically to utilize the carryover effect.
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Old 01-11-2009, 06:25 AM   #32
Scott Borre
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Re: Battle of the Theorys is pure crossfit the best

Unfortunately, Adam, you don't seem to understand Starting Strength. It is clearly not a 'powerlifting' program, its a program to develop a base level of strength for athletes in a wide spectrum of sports. Its a solid program for any S&C coach at a high school to put any of his football, basketball, track, and wrestling (and other sports as well) athletes on.

If the question is how to do the strength based WODs as RX'ed the fastest, and you are weak, SS is an excellent way to go. Are there faster ways to do CF as RX'ed? Perhaps. It just depends on your goals and what you are doing CF for. If you are doing it for sport (as many do), then your goals are different than if you are doing it for vocation (e.g. LEO/MIL) or for GPP for a sport (e.g. off season training for football).
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Old 01-11-2009, 01:52 PM   #33
Hugh Gilmore
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Re: Battle of the Theorys is pure crossfit the best

Firstly Thanks for posting everybody i have learned alot from this discussion
also thanks to Damon Darrel Jamie Leonid Philip Adam and Steven who posted since I have last been on, Hope I didnít leave any one out.

I understand the approach depends on the persons needs, I specifically didnít give a persons current status because
This made everybody justify for the most part how and why they would start a person and even the opinions that there are mulitiple approaches to which people rank as having different benefits.

To Adam and Steven and anyone else the reason I didnít give a specific sport is because my sport would be characterised by common elements of the sports I listed and you probably wouldnít have heard of it.

Hurling Native Irish Sport links to youtube should be WFS
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=AM-kB1e96CA
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=YaxcYB...eature=related
Amateur at all levels

Most unfamiliar people find it hard to follow games/footage it because itís too fast. The poor quality doesnít help
this.

Darrel you have suggested ďdo what you need to get the results you wantĒ also known as SAID principal ďspecific adaptations to imposed demandsĒ when can we expect the article? Is your approach in the article preferable to starting strength in your opinion?

Leonid -Definately agree about the good coach thing I went and got some o lift coaching makes big diff
You have come in with a valid point of focus on the basics fitness in 100 words.

Philip- I believe this is something Dan John said and really wouldnít answer my questions as it refers to athleteís hitting a plateau, is that who you heard it from and have you anything more to add?

Scott yes SS isnít a strict pwrlifing prog, though I canít reference the journal as the comments arenít searchable. Tony Budding said their is no evidence to prove a SS beginning benefits beginning crosfitters re increasing strength for wods as rxd and says that O Lifters transfer better to Crossfit.

Iím surprised that no one has mentioned the power bias article in detail has anyone out there found results from incorporating this into their training?

Also apologies if I have misquoted or misinterpreted any of your posts or the statements I have made, Specifically Tony Budding as I canít find his post.

Again thank you all for sharing and does have anyone have anything else to add as I have found this beneficial.
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Old 01-11-2009, 05:04 PM   #34
Leonid Soubbotine
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Re: Battle of the Theorys is pure crossfit the best

Hugh - that's a wild sport for sure!

World Class Fitness is just an awesome two edged sword that can be used for good with enough knowledge, and for not so good - where there's a lack of clear understanding of what's going in and what needs to be done.

Power bias is something we've been working with for quite sometime and I'm a big fan of it - a bit more tricky to execute in a group fashion, but once done - very fun and the results are excellent!
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Old 01-11-2009, 05:39 PM   #35
Hugh Gilmore
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Re: Battle of the Theorys is pure crossfit the best

Well Leonid, You see by any normal standards i would be a fairly competent coach with a number of qualitfications in my sport as well as a degree in sports exercise science, but to be honest as we all have discovered its not worth a damm when you hold it to the standards of crossfit. So I understand the double edged sword analogy.

I would love to open my own afilliate but its not going to happen for quite a while but I am continually trying to educate my self as to the workings of training the world class fitness and have been reading the journal for two years now as well as looking at other things deemed worthy but the whole programming thing seams to be the grayest area for me, its just theres so many variations and no clearcut way as to which way is best!

Can you provide any more info on how the power bias worked and more so how you incorporated to groups because I can understand that it can be difficult?

Also yeah hurling is a pretty unique sport, to be able to catch a ball at 90mph while another man is trying to hit the same ball would probably put it in a league of its own, funny I never appreciated the speed of it until i watched 8 championship games in slow motion for research the skill level is unreal.
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Old 01-11-2009, 05:54 PM   #36
Herm Blancaflor
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Re: Battle of the Theorys is pure crossfit the best

Disclaimer: this is my opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh Gilmore View Post
Which approach is generally best for building a person from the START to become a firebreather ?
CF.com WODs, like Tony Budding says.

Quote:
Which approach is best for an athlete looking to peak for the Crossfit games?
CF.com, then lots of focus on special training to address weaknesses. Volume must be controlled, so the CF.com WODs which are high volume need to be cut back, unless it involves a weakness of yours.

ie:

"Murph" comes up. You are good at running and BW exercises, but suck at Clean & Jerk. Cut the runs to 1/2 miles, and the exercise reps in half. Later that day, work on your Oly lifts.

"Deadlift 3-3-3-3-3" comes up. You are great at Deadlifting, as you can easily handle over 2 1/2 times your bodyweight, but you suck at pull-ups, push-ups, and pistol squats. Get the Deadlift WOD done, but warm-up with the CFWU. Tons of BW exercise practice in there! Maybe you can hit some HSPU, Pistols, and Muscle-up progressions after you deadlift.

Quote:
Which approach is best for building large amounts of functional strength for teams sport eg lacrosse hockey soccer bball ect? (not American football as its really position specific from my understanding though i dont know?)
Olympic Lifting, hands down!

Quote:
I am looking to get as many opinions based on facts and anecdotal evidence because I just need to know more.
It's cool that you want to learn. Open mind=faster results.
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Old 01-11-2009, 07:09 PM   #37
Phillip Garrison
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Re: Battle of the Theorys is pure crossfit the best

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh Gilmore View Post
Firstly Thanks for posting everybody i have learned alot from this discussion
also thanks to Damon Darrel Jamie Leonid Philip Adam and Steven who posted since I have last been on, Hope I didnít leave any one out.

I understand the approach depends on the persons needs, I specifically didnít give a persons current status because
This made everybody justify for the most part how and why they would start a person and even the opinions that there are mulitiple approaches to which people rank as having different benefits.

To Adam and Steven and anyone else the reason I didnít give a specific sport is because my sport would be characterised by common elements of the sports I listed and you probably wouldnít have heard of it.

Hurling Native Irish Sport links to youtube should be WFS
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=AM-kB1e96CA
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=YaxcYB...eature=related
Amateur at all levels

Most unfamiliar people find it hard to follow games/footage it because itís too fast. The poor quality doesnít help
this.

Darrel you have suggested ďdo what you need to get the results you wantĒ also known as SAID principal ďspecific adaptations to imposed demandsĒ when can we expect the article? Is your approach in the article preferable to starting strength in your opinion?

Leonid -Definately agree about the good coach thing I went and got some o lift coaching makes big diff
You have come in with a valid point of focus on the basics fitness in 100 words.

Philip- I believe this is something Dan John said and really wouldnít answer my questions as it refers to athleteís hitting a plateau, is that who you heard it from and have you anything more to add?

Scott yes SS isnít a strict pwrlifing prog, though I canít reference the journal as the comments arenít searchable. Tony Budding said their is no evidence to prove a SS beginning benefits beginning crosfitters re increasing strength for wods as rxd and says that O Lifters transfer better to Crossfit.

Iím surprised that no one has mentioned the power bias article in detail has anyone out there found results from incorporating this into their training?

Also apologies if I have misquoted or misinterpreted any of your posts or the statements I have made, Specifically Tony Budding as I canít find his post.

Again thank you all for sharing and does have anyone have anything else to add as I have found this beneficial.
No I didn't hear it from Dan John. It does answer your question. My point is that there is no "Best" program.
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Old 01-11-2009, 07:26 PM   #38
Robert Callahan
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Re: Battle of the Theorys is pure crossfit the best

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Scheiner View Post
Steven,
let me first say it's great to have you back here!



Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Scheiner View Post
3. Strength Bias Crossfit.
Positive- Improves metcon of all time lengths. Strength improves not just in 1RM, 3RM, and 5RM but various higher rep ranges.
Negative- It's being kept secret until Jeff and Bingo finish editing it for the crossfit journal. Sorry
Cannot agree enough, I've been working with this program for a limited time and as someone who has done several SS cycles it is really the perfect blend of both. I hear it is close to publish so hopefully the secrecy can end soon!!!

-Robert
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Old 01-11-2009, 11:02 PM   #39
Adolfo Riveron
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Re: Battle of the Theorys is pure crossfit the best

I hope so, ive been waiting for the article for a while now ever since you metioned it in past threads. Im very interested in this.
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Old 01-12-2009, 08:34 AM   #40
David Stout
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Re: Battle of the Theorys is pure crossfit the best

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Originally Posted by Darrell E. White View Post
Jeff Martin and I are awaiting the final editing of an article we submitted to the CFJ for a Crossfit program with a strength bias analogous to CFE. This program has produced BOTH significant strength gains AND significant met-con gains.
While we await this article, can you describe how this methodology differs from the several MEBB templates and articles that Coach Rutherford has published?
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