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Old 02-24-2011, 01:41 PM   #31
Larry Hotchkiss
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Re: More strength training required before starting CrossFit?

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Originally Posted by Will Feber View Post
Found a gym with a squat rack, started very slowly with the squat to make sure I get the form right, up to 200lbs 5RM now. In the last 3 weeks also increased the 5RM for the deadlift from 200 lbs to 265lbs.

Overall glad that I decided to do Starting Strength before starting with CrossFit
Just keep in mind having strength does not directly correlate to doing wods RX. Sure it helps, but if you dont have the metabolic conditioning to fuel moving the weight your new found strength allows you to move its worthless in a WOD.
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Old 02-24-2011, 02:25 PM   #32
Cody Roberts
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Re: More strength training required before starting CrossFit?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esLWUbe2Lig wfs


usually helps me.. keep lifting hard man, practice good form. lift heavy weights, and diet right!
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Old 02-24-2011, 06:33 PM   #33
Eric Montgomery
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Re: More strength training required before starting CrossFit?

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Originally Posted by Larry Hotchkiss View Post
Just keep in mind having strength does not directly correlate to doing wods RX. Sure it helps, but if you dont have the metabolic conditioning to fuel moving the weight your new found strength allows you to move its worthless in a WOD.
I would argue the opposite--metcon without strength is useless. I don't care how fast you can do tabata air squats, it's not going to help you do any workout that requires even the smallest load for high reps.

Someone who can squat 400lbs will probably knock out higher-rep 95lb thrusters far easier than someone who squats 200lbs, regardless of their respective conditioning levels.
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Old 02-24-2011, 07:45 PM   #34
Craig Massey
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Re: More strength training required before starting CrossFit?

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I would argue the opposite--metcon without strength is useless. I don't care how fast you can do tabata air squats, it's not going to help you do any workout that requires even the smallest load for high reps.

Someone who can squat 400lbs will probably knock out higher-rep 95lb thrusters far easier than someone who squats 200lbs, regardless of their respective conditioning levels.
That isn't always true, sorry.
I've seen as many complaints from strong guys complaining that their metcon times suck even though they can lift the weight as weak guys saying their rx'ed times suck because they're not strong enough.

Strength athletes can fail miserably at high rep work. They don't cope with lifting with an elevated heart rate and associated discomfort. They have to be taught to scale down to a weight that is "beneath" them.
"Weak" triathletes thrive on pain and will keep moving through it. They lose time then they hit muscular exhaustion.
Both have poor metcon times until they equalise.

Which is a better place to come from? I'd say it depends on the individual, although Jeff Martin once said he finds it easier to make triathletes strong than make strength athletes fast.

Just do the WODs and improve both.

Last edited by Craig Massey : 02-24-2011 at 08:05 PM.
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Old 02-24-2011, 08:34 PM   #35
Eric Montgomery
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Re: More strength training required before starting CrossFit?

Well yeah, some level of metcon capacity is needed to do metcons, but no amount of 135lb power cleans will improve your ability to do a single 250lb power clean, but getting a 250lb power clean will greatly improve your ability to do lots of 135lb power cleans in a metcon.

My personal experience (and what I've gathered from plenty of people I've trained) is that the best way to improve their metcon performance is to get them stronger while doing minimal conditioning work at first. Greater maximal strength equals greater ability to do repeated reps at a given submaximal load without getting smoked, etc.
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Old 02-24-2011, 08:41 PM   #36
Craig Massey
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Re: More strength training required before starting CrossFit?

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Well yeah, some level of metcon capacity is needed to do metcons, but no amount of 135lb power cleans will improve your ability to do a single 250lb power clean, but getting a 250lb power clean will greatly improve your ability to do lots of 135lb power cleans in a metcon.

My personal experience (and what I've gathered from plenty of people I've trained) is that the best way to improve their metcon performance is to get them stronger while doing minimal conditioning work at first. Greater maximal strength equals greater ability to do repeated reps at a given submaximal load without getting smoked, etc.
Because I just posted a link to this in a topic on the BX forum; http://www.crossfitbrandx.com/index....ewthread/5138/ (wfs if a tad belligerent, but you get that when you try and say you need to separate CF and strength training around Jeff ).
And he recently proved his point at the California State Powerlifting champs. 41 state records (some of which could have been national records), 11 State Champions, 1 Best overall female lifter. All on CrossFit training.
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Old 02-25-2011, 08:22 AM   #37
Larry Hotchkiss
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Re: More strength training required before starting CrossFit?

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That isn't always true, sorry.
I've seen as many complaints from strong guys complaining that their metcon times suck even though they can lift the weight as weak guys saying their rx'ed times suck because they're not strong enough.
Thats exactly what I was trying to get at. Look at the DT hero wod for example. I dont consider the RX weight used heavy at all but I simply dont have the metabolic conditioning to get through it in a decent amount of time.
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Old 02-25-2011, 11:51 AM   #38
Craig Massey
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Re: More strength training required before starting CrossFit?

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Thats exactly what I was trying to get at. Look at the DT hero wod for example. I dont consider the RX weight used heavy at all but I simply dont have the metabolic conditioning to get through it in a decent amount of time.
Yeah, it's quite common and very humbling. It's also fun if you've been mocked by the strong guys in a globogym for your "crazy" workouts to have them try one and see them struggle with the "little" weights. Not that I've done that (and I actually haven't), but I know several people who have.

Some strong guys stay with it, develop the ability to endure the discomfort and increase their metabolic capacity, others stay where they're comfortable. It's kind of the Jason Khalipa thing. He's a moose and you can see that metcons hurt him, but he keeps at it and it's come together for him.

I once explained it as strong guys needing to train the mental discipline of enduring the discomfort as much as their physical capacity. That and letting go of their ego, something we all have to confront at some point.
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Old 02-28-2011, 12:56 AM   #39
Wes Palmer
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Re: More strength training required before starting CrossFit?

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this is an interesting question, i just signed up for crossfit after going to my gym for about 4 months. the owner gave me a free week and i liked the workout and figured i'd give it a 3 month try out.

i'm 5'10 195 lbs and i currently lift the following:

bench press - 240 lb max

deadlift - 390 lb max

squat - i never do heavy so i work out with around 225

overhead lifts no idea never did them.

my problem is the opposite my cardio and stamina are real poor. i can do 20 dead hangs one round, the next i can do three.

i was told by people in the gym that it scales to you and really you trying to prepare for crossfit is like cleaning the house before the cleaning lady gets there.

i am going to work in one to two days a week of heavy lifting focused strength training. i just enjoy it too much to abandon it completely.
Maybe start a new thread and you will get some instructions as well
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Old 02-28-2011, 11:48 PM   #40
Garrett MF Smith
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Re: More strength training required before starting CrossFit?

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Originally Posted by Larry Hotchkiss View Post
SS is a poor program choice for fat loss, its designed for building strength which requires food. I think you need to decide what your primary focus is and then go after that for a while.
Are you talking about http://www.crossfitss.com/ ?
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Practice and train major lifts: deadlift, clean, squat, presses, C&J, and snatch. Similarly, master the basics of gymnastics: pull-ups, dips, rope climb, push-ups, sit-ups, presses to handstands, pirouettes, flips, splits, and holds. Bike, run, swim, row, etc, hard and fast. Five or six days per week mix these elements in as many combinations and patterns as creativity will allow. ROUTINE IS THE ENEMY. Keep workouts short and intense.
That sounds like a summary of an excellent program for strength and shreddedness. Though I do not agree completely wita "ROUTINE IS THE ENEMY". Sleeping schedule and progressive overload both require at least some routine. I like to brush my teeth and drink water in the morning -- I try and make it routine.

The OP's lack of results could come down to stress, poor hormone profile caused by what he is doing outside of the gym. Could be anything such as antidepressants, not enough quality sleep, improper nutrition, poor digestion, or who knows what else. Or maybe he isn't training hard enough.

Last edited by Garrett MF Smith : 02-28-2011 at 11:52 PM.
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