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Fitness Theory and Practice. CrossFit's rationale & foundations. Who is fit? What is fitness?

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Old 11-22-2008, 07:38 PM   #21
David Ryan Thomas
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Re: Explain why the WOD is enough

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Originally Posted by Shane Skowron View Post
That's a loaded statement.



If she didn't think that FGB was "enough" for the day, it's really obvious she wasn't trying her hardest. That is among the most metabolically-taxing workouts and there is no way you can put everything you've got into that one and still think it's not enough.

If she wants to do a mile warmup and a mile time trial every now and then, that is perfectly acceptable. In fact, those CFers who want to be better runners will add sprints or short intervals at some point after their WOD. However, the most elite CFers just do a warmup, the WOD, and some skill work, only occasionally doing a 2nd WOD.

No offense to your friend, but 30 miles a week really isn't a great deal of running. It's more than most Crossfitters do, but my guess is that she thinks about workouts more in terms of time spent working out rather than quality or intensity of the workout. Running 30mpw will take longer than all the WODs in a week combined, but even the best distance runners know that quality of mileage is far more important than quantity. Same with CF workouts.

Could you elaborate? What is skill work?
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Old 11-22-2008, 08:31 PM   #22
Shane Skowron
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Re: Explain why the WOD is enough

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Originally Posted by David Ryan Thomas View Post
Could you elaborate? What is skill work?
Skill work usually involves movements and exercises that are focused more on balance, coordination, and agility than the more intensive aspects of fitness. Doing skill work usually won't completely wreck you like a WOD and can be pretty fun.

What types of skills you work on depends on your goals and what sports you play, if any. Perfecting form for exercises, especially the technical ones like muscle-ups and snatches can be put in this category.

Examples of skill work: handstands and freestanding HSPUs, front levers, back levers, planches, high box jumps, jumproping techniques, working on swimming strokes, baseball pitching and hitting, turkish getups, flips and trampoline work, kip-ups from the ground, hockey shots, parkour techniques...

The list is infinite.
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Old 11-23-2008, 03:03 PM   #23
David Reed
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Re: Explain why the WOD is enough

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Originally Posted by Patrick Skinner View Post
Wow, lots of quick responses.

To clarify some things. I have said most of your responses to her.
Her background is in long distance running, 30 miles a week. So she isn't exactly concerned with getting fit because she is, but she just wants to find a way to be more fit, and she doesn't want extra miles to be the answer.

She thinks that those in the videos performing say a 4min workout do other things in their workout to remain that fit and to have the ability to perform those workouts in 4mins.

She has done many of the workouts and even tried it for about a 4 week period with plenty of scaled versions. No surprise but she liked Murph the best due to the running emphasis and disliked nearly any workout that included weights., especially the 1-1-1-1-1 variety which required max effort. She did find the metcons to be taxing and difficult but couldnt get past the fact that for example FGB was over in 17mins and that was it for the day. She always included at least a mile warmup and either a timed mile or a mile cooldown, so that she felt it was a "long enough" workout.
Have her do fran (scaled probably), she shouldn't have enough energy left to be running a mile afterwards.

In my opinion can't really judge whether or not it's "enough" until she's putting maximum effort into the workouts (i.e. you feel like you're going to die, pukie is knocking at the door, etc).
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Old 11-23-2008, 05:11 PM   #24
Skylar Cook
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Re: Explain why the WOD is enough

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Originally Posted by David Reed View Post
Have her do fran (scaled probably), she shouldn't have enough energy left to be running a mile afterwards.

In my opinion can't really judge whether or not it's "enough" until she's putting maximum effort into the workouts (i.e. you feel like you're going to die, pukie is knocking at the door, etc).
If she has to scale it...


She's not fit enough for it.
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Old 11-24-2008, 10:03 AM   #25
Patrick Skinner
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Re: Explain why the WOD is enough

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Have her do fran (scaled probably), she shouldn't have enough energy left to be running a mile afterwards.

In my opinion can't really judge whether or not it's "enough" until she's putting maximum effort into the workouts (i.e. you feel like you're going to die, pukie is knocking at the door, etc).
I'm not sure I agree. While I agree doing Fran at maximal effort is extremely taxing, I don't think doing it at maximum effort means you can't go do a cool down mile run after about 5 mins of recovery. The point being yes it is difficult for however long it takes you but assuming you can complete in under 10 mins there is no reason you can't do other activity in the day. In the CF games they used Fran and then had the run and then the deadlift burpee event. So it's not like Fran wipes you out for the day.

Also are we led to believe that the "stars" of crossfit are walking in to the gym and doing their 2 or 3 min Fran and walking out? I think this comes back to be an elite athlete or elite crossfit, a little more work than the WOD's is necessary, even if that work is solely skill work.

As far as being not fit enough, that's probably just a take on how you define fit.
If Fran must be scaled I wouldn't say it is necessarily a fitness issue but more likely a strength issue. A marathon runner that has to scale Fran, I would still consider fit, just not strong, but again thats probably just an issue with how one describes "fit."

Last edited by Patrick Skinner : 11-24-2008 at 10:06 AM.
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Old 11-24-2008, 10:36 AM   #26
Shane Skowron
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Re: Explain why the WOD is enough

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As far as being not fit enough, that's probably just a take on how you define fit.
If Fran must be scaled I wouldn't say it is necessarily a fitness issue but more likely a strength issue. A marathon runner that has to scale Fran, I would still consider fit, just not strong, but again thats probably just an issue with how one describes "fit."

Well according to the CF methodology you are wrong. Strength and fitness are inseparable. One cannot be fit without being strong.
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Old 11-24-2008, 10:44 AM   #27
Shane Skowron
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Re: Explain why the WOD is enough

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Originally Posted by Patrick Skinner View Post
I'm not sure I agree. While I agree doing Fran at maximal effort is extremely taxing, I don't think doing it at maximum effort means you can't go do a cool down mile run after about 5 mins of recovery. The point being yes it is difficult for however long it takes you but assuming you can complete in under 10 mins there is no reason you can't do other activity in the day. In the CF games they used Fran and then had the run and then the deadlift burpee event. So it's not like Fran wipes you out for the day
It's true you can do something 5 minutes after a Fran like run a mile, but unless you are really attached to the idea, there isn't much benefit. It will be next to impossible to perform at maximal or near maximal intensity (e.g. PR range) after hitting a Fran as hard as possible.
And unless there is a good reason to (e.g. you are training for sport) I see no point in doing extra work at less-than-best intensity just for the sake of it. If you are training for a race then occasionally it is a good idea to train at a RPE that is lower than what you can maximally sustain but in general there's little benefit in extra workouts unless you are hitting it as hard as possible.
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Old 11-24-2008, 10:44 AM   #28
Justin McGinley
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Re: Explain why the WOD is enough

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Originally Posted by Patrick Skinner View Post
I'm not sure I agree. While I agree doing Fran at maximal effort is extremely taxing, I don't think doing it at maximum effort means you can't go do a cool down mile run after about 5 mins of recovery.
If you can run a mile 5 minutes after doing Fran, you need to try harder next time. I do most metcon WODs so hard I am still fried 30 minutes later. Running as a "cool down" is an impossibility.

Many runners have a hard time accepting that the WODs are enough, and most of those runners don't know how to go 100% all out during a metcon.
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Old 11-24-2008, 03:21 PM   #29
Patrick Skinner
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Re: Explain why the WOD is enough

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Originally Posted by Shane Skowron View Post
Well according to the CF methodology you are wrong. Strength and fitness are inseparable. One cannot be fit without being strong.
Yes Shane I understand by the CF definition of fit that would be the case. And that was the reason I mentioned it in my post. I love crossfit, but I haven't drank the juice quite as hard as you. I'm still able to realize there are other ways to fitness and still try to keep an open mind to those ways rather than simply assuming crossfit is the be all end all to a fitter life. And to say that a marathon runner is not fit seems awful close minded and maybe even a bit ignorant. They may not be "crossfit fit" but they are certainly fit.

Justin: I understand and can see how you can't run a mile after Fran. But it is possible someone who has a better endurance background than you an complete a Fran and then do that cooldown run.

Just as an example,what if someone could do a Fran in a lower time than you and then 5 mins later could run. Would you necesarrily say the only reason they could run is because they didn't give 100%, or is it maybe because they have better endurance, or are more fit?

Last edited by Patrick Skinner : 11-24-2008 at 03:29 PM.
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Old 11-24-2008, 03:50 PM   #30
Jacob Cloud
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Re: Explain why the WOD is enough

If she enjoys distance running, fine - let her run distance. I'd focus on pushing her to supplement with lifting heavy **** once or twice a week to help build some strength and muscle mass, which will help her sustain her strength longer during life. Maybe slowly she'll turn around and like a WOD as a replacement every once in awhile, but if not, what's the problem? Sounds like she's relatively healthy and athletic, which is better than most people. Not everyone needs to compete in CF as a sport. Just use some of the keys and integrate that into your training to make you better all around.

I tried to push CF (main site WODs and a local affiliate) on my gf, and she didn't "love" it. I tried SS, and she didn't love it. Now I let her do what she wants for the most part (LSD on the treadmill), with a loving nudge to the squat rack on occasion, and she is making great progress, and is happy and healthier than ever, and is more enthusiastic than ever. She might never squat 200, but she doesn't seem to care, and honestly, neither do I. I'm just glad we get to go to the gym together, and that we're both consistently improving ourselves.
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