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Old 02-06-2010, 08:47 AM   #41
Brian Degenaro
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Re: John Broz - Thoughts on Training volume

Glenn, so that means Jon's already cleaned like 10kg more than his best front squat? If I remember you mentioned Jon's best FS was 180?
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Old 02-06-2010, 06:26 PM   #42
Mark Hanley
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Re: John Broz - Thoughts on Training volume

I am not going to get into naming names, but one of my coaches was a USA national champion, I have trained in the US and also Australia when the Bulgarian national squad were visiting, I have also trained with olympic gold medallists/world champions from a variety of sports and countries, my old training partner was ex soviet bloc.

Drug tests mean very little, they can be got around, and so does comparing marine training to weightlifting training. So you give me the numbers of the people you mentioned, I ring them up and they say they are not using drugs, that clears it up then, why use drug tests when they could just use me as telephone confessional?

There is also another weird thing as well, how come it is always the same coaches who find these genetic superhumans

If people want to train with drugs then so be it, but I have seen people go mad and/or die from using drugs, but that is the path they choose and who am I to judge.

Why come onto a forum concerned with health, wellbeing and fitness and tell them that there are genetic superhumans that can train 6 and 7 days a week with maximum weights?
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Old 02-06-2010, 06:47 PM   #43
Brian Degenaro
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Re: John Broz - Thoughts on Training volume

I don't think it's the same coaches finding genetic superhumans, I think it's just that in the US we lose all our genetic superhumans to track, football, gymnastics, and every other sport that gets more air time on TV than weightlifting. And is it the coach's luck or is it the fact that the training actually works?

Most of Broz's lifters are football players, people who train to be big and strong and fast. I've seen so many stupid strong football players toss around 140-160kg+ power cleans, imagine if they learned the full lift with good form!

No one is coming on here, someone brought up this topic. It's not just about training maximum weights every day, it's max intensity. If you haven't seen it, Miko Salo and other of the Games contestants are training multiple times a day max intensity. The same exact principle is at play here. Would you say they're all on drugs as well?

Training like a Bulgarian or a Chinese or a Turkish or a Russian lifter all has the same principle: bust your butt every day, train the movements as often as possible, and gradually increase your workload over a period of time.

Glenn brought up Marine training for this reason: it's frikkin' hard the first time you ever do it, but the more you do it and suck it up, the easier it is.
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Old 02-06-2010, 06:59 PM   #44
Mark Hanley
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Re: John Broz - Thoughts on Training volume

Maximal intensity and Maximal weights are two different concepts.

Russians and Bulgarians train differently, turkish weightlifters are bulgarians rebadged, unclear about how the chinese train at this point in time.

Training is not about busting your butt, it is about training better than your competitors and maximising your potential.

To be honest Brian my comments weren't directed at yourself but Glenn.
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Old 02-09-2010, 05:34 PM   #45
Glenn Pendlay
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Re: John Broz - Thoughts on Training volume

Mark,

Just so we are clear here... are you insinuating that the lifters I mentioned, all of whom were on the NAN program throughout most of their careers, were using drugs?

Glenn
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Old 02-09-2010, 05:41 PM   #46
Glenn Pendlay
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Re: John Broz - Thoughts on Training volume

Brian,

Jons front squat has to have gone up, but we havnt maxed the front squat in the last few weeks. We have been doing 5 by 5 on the back squat on monday, 3 by 3 on the front on wed, and one maximal set of 3 reps on saturday on hte back squat. FYI, Jon did 185kg for 5 by 5 monday, 3 days after his PR attempt of 190 in the clean, and, before the squats, made cleans of 180, 185, and a close attempt at 192.

Whenever you do this type of program, the front squats on Wed are always kind of depressed, because you are still tired from the 5 by 5 of back squats on Monday. If you are gonna make a clean PR, it will be on Friday, Sat, or Monday before squatting... cause Tue to Thur, you will be tired as hell from mondays squats and not at your best. He did still powersnatch 120 (PR is 132) and powerclean 150 (PR is 160) today, the day after mondays squats though.

Glenn
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Old 02-09-2010, 05:56 PM   #47
Brian Degenaro
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Re: John Broz - Thoughts on Training volume

That's fantastic, Glenn! Jon's making some serious improvement this past month from what I can tell, that is sweet. I'm assuming he wants 200 by Nationals?
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Old 02-10-2010, 05:09 AM   #48
Mark Hanley
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Re: John Broz - Thoughts on Training volume

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Pendlay View Post
Mark,

Just so we are clear here... are you insinuating that the lifters I mentioned, all of whom were on the NAN program throughout most of their careers, were using drugs?

Glenn
A little bit of information on the founder of the Bulgarian training system.

http://www.cathletics.com/forum/show...58&postcount=7

NAN program can be got around.

Glenn I don't care what those lifters do, but saying to people they can lift weights in the region of 90%-100%+ 1RM twice a day 6-7 days a week

Last edited by Mark Hanley : 02-10-2010 at 05:24 AM.
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Old 02-10-2010, 05:33 AM   #49
Brian Degenaro
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Re: John Broz - Thoughts on Training volume

I know you're talking to Glenn but ... you don't always get to 90-100% all the time, ever, sometimes it can be <80% from fatigue, and this can last for a week or more at a time. And you should know - with your experience - the limiting factor is technique in the lifts. Lifters who clean more than they front squat are few and far between.
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Old 02-10-2010, 06:31 AM   #50
Mark Hanley
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Re: John Broz - Thoughts on Training volume

I am not surprised fatigue is an element for you, as the system was not designed for people not using assistance, which I presume you are not.

Can you elaborate a little re. the technique/strength front squat/clean please?
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