SS vs. PM Mass Gain

[Sean Dunston]

Originally Posted by Jeremy Beasom

The kind of progress he's looking for is probably achievable within about a year if he's consistent in his training and diet. It's about the kind of progress I'd be looking at if I were able to train more than the average 2–3 days a week I'm getting now. The problem seems to be that he doesn't want to take a year to get there; he wants it now. Well, so does everyone. It doesn't work that way, even with steroids.

Exactly.

"There are no shortcuts. The fact that a shortcut is important to you means that you are a p***y. Let me be clear here: if you'd rather take steroids than do your squats heavy and drink enough milk, then you are a f*****g p***y. I have no time or patience for f*****g p*****s. Please tell everyone you know that I said this." - Coach Mark Rippetoe

[Louis Andre Pardo]

Originally Posted by Sean Dunston

Exactly.

"There are no shortcuts. The fact that a shortcut is important to you means that you are a p***y. Let me be clear here: if you'd rather take steroids than do your squats heavy and drink enough milk, then you are a f*****g p***y. I have no time or patience for f*****g p*****s. Please tell everyone you know that I said this." - Coach Mark Rippetoe

Seriously, someone should come up with a book of quotes from Rippetoe and Glassman...they are so funny, true, to the point and in general, awesome!

[Steven Holm]

Originally Posted by Louis Andre Pardo

"There are no shortcuts. The fact that a shortcut is important to you means that you are a p***y. Let me be clear here: if you'd rather take steroids than do your squats heavy and drink enough milk, then you are a f*****g p***y. I have no time or patience for f*****g p*****s. Please tell everyone you know that I said this." - Coach Mark Rippetoe

Seriously, someone should come up with a book of quotes from Rippetoe and Glassman...they are so funny, true, to the point and in general, awesome!

I believe the Rip quotes and posts from his Q&A book is supposed to be out soon.

[Alex Bond]

Originally Posted by Louis Andre Pardo

"There are no shortcuts. The fact that a shortcut is important to you means that you are a p***y. Let me be clear here: if you'd rather take steroids than do your squats heavy and drink enough milk, then you are a f*****g p***y. I have no time or patience for f*****g p*****s. Please tell everyone you know that I said this." - Coach Mark Rippetoe

Seriously, someone should come up with a book of quotes from Rippetoe and Glassman...they are so funny, true, to the point and in general, awesome!

http://ripquoteoftheday.blogspot.com/

Not WFS for language.

[David Meverden]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the Dave Tate journal video on steroids. Interesting stuff, and applicable. If you haven't seen it, Dave Tate talks about steroids as an "ace card" that you can only flip once. Basically if you need steroids to cut it in highschool football then you have no future in college, and if you need steroids to cut it in college then you are going nowhere in pro ball.

As said by everyone else, the novice trainee has no need to spend his money on steroids. I was a novice of approximately his level and put on close to 15 lbs of muscle in 7 weeks with SS and a lot of milk. You think I'd have put on much more muscle if I'd been taking testosterone? Unlikely. The body has it's limits, and Rips program is good enough that you are close to those limits. The steroids would be a waste of money and (if you listen to one of Dave Tate's other opinions) a waste of good steroids

Originally Posted by Jeremy Beasom

Frankly, it sounds like he's just looking for a shortcut, and steroids probably aren't even going to give him the kind of progress he wants. . .

The problem seems to be that he doesn't want to take a year to get there; he wants it now. Well, so does everyone. It doesn't work that way, even with steroids.

Well put.


P.S. In case it wasn't obvious, I think he should do SS, not the PM program.

[Jakub Kruhlik]

Originally Posted by David Meverden

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the Dave Tate journal video on steroids. Interesting stuff, and applicable. If you haven't seen it, Dave Tate talks about steroids as an "ace card" that you can only flip once. Basically if you need steroids to cut it in highschool football then you have no future in college, and if you need steroids to cut it in college then you are going nowhere in pro ball.

As said by everyone else, the novice trainee has no need to spend his money on steroids. I was a novice of approximately his level and put on close to 15 lbs of muscle in 7 weeks with SS and a lot of milk. You think I'd have put on much more muscle if I'd been taking testosterone? Unlikely. The body has it's limits, and Rips program is good enough that you are close to those limits. The steroids would be a waste of money and (if you listen to one of Dave Tate's other opinions) a waste of good steroids



Well put.


P.S. In case it wasn't obvious, I think he should do SS, not the PM program.

really??? thats alot of muscle. did you gain alot of fat too?

[Gonzalo Fernandez]

Originally Posted by Jakub Kruhlik

really??? thats alot of muscle. did you gain alot of fat too?

Younger athletes following Rippetoe's SS workout and eating regimen (5000+ calories per day) have easily gained 40+ lbs in 4-5 months. Google Johnny Pain and Greyskull, the guy went from 175 lbs to 235lbs. Yes some of that is fat, it has to be because there is no way you would gain 40lbs of muscle in that time period. But the point is that it is easier to lose 10-15lbs of fat at the end of your SS cycle than try to gain that lean muscle mass through your typical BB method.

[Alex Bond]

Originally Posted by Gonzalo Fernandez

Younger athletes following Rippetoe's SS workout and eating regimen (5000+ calories per day) have easily gained 40+ lbs in 4-5 months. Google Johnny Pain and Greyskull, the guy went from 175 lbs to 235lbs. Yes some of that is fat, it has to be because there is no way you would gain 40lbs of muscle in that time period. But the point is that it is easier to lose 10-15lbs of fat at the end of your SS cycle than try to gain that lean muscle mass through your typical BB method.

And if you put on 30lbs of muscle and 10lbs of fat, your body fat percentage went down anyways, so it isn't the end of the world if your abs are less defined, your performance will be through the roof.

[David Meverden]

Originally Posted by Jakub Kruhlik

really??? thats alot of muscle. did you gain alot of fat too?

I gained 30 lbs total in 7 weeks (26 yo male, 5000 kcal a day, drinking a gallon of whole milk a day, went from 170 to 200), so about half and half.

I estimate that half the weight was muscle because a few months later after doing rough paleo and crossfit my weight settled down at 185, and I was once again using the old notch on my belt. Not a foolproof measurement, I guess, but I think my number is probably pretty close, give or take a couple of pounds (so if you really want to be nitpicky I guess say 12-15 lbs of muscle. Still fairly substantial. Milk and squats do amazing things when put together in that SS novice routine. My legs freakin exploded).

EDIT: For a lot more info on my results see post #47 in this WFS thread: http://www.board.crossfit.com/showth...t=40119&page=5

[Jakub Kruhlik]

Originally Posted by David Meverden

I gained 30 lbs total in 7 weeks (26 yo male, 5000 kcal a day, drinking a gallon of whole milk a day, went from 170 to 200), so about half and half.

I estimate that half the weight was muscle because a few months later after doing rough paleo and crossfit my weight settled down at 185, and I was once again using the old notch on my belt. Not a foolproof measurement, I guess, but I think my number is probably pretty close, give or take a couple of pounds (so if you really want to be nitpicky I guess say 12-15 lbs of muscle. Still fairly substantial. Milk and squats do amazing things when put together in that SS novice routine. My legs freakin exploded).

EDIT: For a lot more info on my results see post #47 in this WFS thread: http://www.board.crossfit.com/showth...t=40119&page=5

did you take in 5000kcal and a gallon of milk or does the 5000kcal include the gallon of milk?