Some Thoughts on Bars

[Allen Griffin]

Bill,

While your input is always appreciated, I believe you failed to mention the York bar I purchased. I have already placed the order and I was looking to get some insight/input on the York bar.

I guess your point is that the Beater bar would've been a better option for the $$$.

[Robert Britt Freund]

Originally Posted by Allen Griffin

Bill,

While your input is always appreciated, I believe you failed to mention the York bar I purchased. I have already placed the order and I was looking to get some insight/input on the York bar.

I guess your point is that the Beater bar would've been a better option for the $$$.

Hi Allen.

Did you get the 1000 lb test or the 1500 lb test York bar?

You have pretty decent numbers on your CFT, so you want a reasonable bar for the slow lifts.

The 1500 lb test York bar is pretty close to the Rogue Beater bar, although a tad bit thicker (32mm vs 31mm). The 1000 lb test bar is only 30mm.

Frankly, all three bars (Rogue Beater, York 1500, York 1000) are made out of relatively cheap steel. The Yorks appear to be chromed while the Rogue is black oxide (on the bar/grip). For feel, I prefer black oxide (chrome is a bit slippery) but for looks I prefer chrome, so this is a toss-up in my opinion .

If money is a constraint, then either the Rogue Beater or York 1500 will be fine for your slow lifts. They aren't "great" bars, but they will get the job done. I think you are getting strong enough to maybe stay away from the York 1000 lb bar. I don't think you will get hurt or that the bar will bend, necessarily, but be on the safe side. The good thing is that you won't be dropping this bar, as you have an HD (good EDT steel) for your dynamic lift bar. If you do end up having to drop the bar onto safeties in a 1RM slow lift attempt, any of the three bars might very well bend, but at least you won't get hurt.

I would bet that, if you did order the York 1000 and it hasn't shipped yet, Bill at Rogue will let you shift your order to either the York 1500 or the Beater.

I hope this helps somewhat.

Good luck on your lifts, and congrats on the nice CFT...

Regards,
brittf

[Andrew Roden]

I love all the info on the different bars, but here is a question from another perspective. I bought a Pendlay HD bar last year. It is my only bar. At what point should I be looking for a dedicated slow lift bar? Current cftotal is 952: sq:355 press:182 dl:415

[William Henniger]

Allen:

Missed that sorry! We have not replaced any of those bars due to bending so I think either way you will be happy.

I personally am not a huge fan of chrome plated bars, I like bars that have a chalky feel. The black zinc has a great feel and I prefer it over chrome. Other than that it is a personal preference on the knurl.

The knurl will can be changed by tool, method, hardness of bar, diameter of bar...all kinds of stuff. I like a dense knurl like the B&R or Rogue.

Andrew:

I think if you ask Britt he would tell right away because he likes to have the gear. For effectiveness of training you are fine with that bar, it is a great general purpose bar.

For Powerlifting:

If you want to stiffen up the bar so that you don't lose any of the force you are generating then you may want to go to a stiffer bar shaft. This can be accomplished by increasing the shaft diameter or the steel ratings. The B&R bar has a tensile strength of 200K PSI vs the Rogue/HD at 155K PSI. This means that it is a very strong bar and more stiff than the others. When you pull a deadlift or press the bar you want to maintain the force generated in an upward direction. If you used a high end olift bar it would be more flexible and could possibly pull you down. Speaking with Louie Simmons this was an issue with some bar manufacturers back in the day. The bar would yank the lifter down on a super heavy deadlift. We have a Burg & Rip bar at Louie's gym West Side Barbell that has been going thru the ringer for 7 months, straight as an arrow! They love the bar.

The HD bar is pretty stiff so with those numbers you are most likely good to go. We use the Rogue/HD bars for PR days all the time.

For Olympic lifting:

You may get to the point where you need the 28MM/25MM shaft with more action. A very good lifter uses the "whip" of the bar. For someone that is lifting minimal loads this may never be an issue and a bar like the Rogue/HD will be all you ever need.

This is about the most quick and dirty answer to your question, one could write a small book on it if they wanted. I am certain that if you ask Rip he would give you a lengthy answer.

You guys/gals are always welcome to call us 614.358.6190 we will do our best to answer your questions about bars. If you are ever in Columbus, OH you can stop by and put some weight on the bar!!!

Bill

[Robert Britt Freund]

Originally Posted by Andrew Roden

I love all the info on the different bars, but here is a question from another perspective. I bought a Pendlay HD bar last year. It is my only bar. At what point should I be looking for a dedicated slow lift bar? Current cftotal is 952: sq:355 press:182 dl:415

Hi Andrew.

Well, Bill has me pegged .

I actually am pretty much in line with what Bill said in his reply. The simple truth is that with a good mid-line bar like the Pendlay HD or the Rogue Bar (both around 150,000-165,00 psi tensile strength, 28.4 mm diameter), very few people NEED a different bar for the slow lifts. Unless you drop one of these bars on the safeties in a 1RM missed lift, I just don't believe that you are likely to bend them. In a different post a couple of days back, Glenn Pendlay responded to a similar question and noted that he has seen 600+ lb deadlifts and 200 kg (440+) clean & jerks performed on an HD bar without any bending of the bar.

So, unless you are just a gear-head (like me) or want optimized bars for Olympic Lifts and/or for Powerlifts, you can probably go your entire training life with the HD bar (or the Rogue Bar, which has essentially the same performance specs, just a different finish-out and dual knurling marks and different knurling).

Now, that being said, there ARE differences between bars designed specifically for the Olympic lifts and for the Powerlifts.

Olympic lifting bars will be 28mm in diameter (you CAN feel the difference in a 28 mm and a 28.4 mm bar) and more flexible. The knurling is generally lighter, the knurling marks are set based on the IWF standards, and there may or may not be center knurling (IWF standards DO specify center knurling). I, personally, am not a good enough Olympic weightlifter to really make use of the whip to increase my 1RM lifts. Others can. Where I notice it is in the grip (I use a hook grip and have medium sized hands) and in the impact on my delts when I catch a heavy clean (the flex takes away some of the shock). The Pendlay HD and the Rogue bar ARE noticeably stiffer and less flexible than a true Olympic lifting bar, but it probably only really matters to high-end lifters. High-end Olympic lifting bars will also have needle bearings rather than bushings, to allow for excellent spin.

High-end powerlifting bars will be 29mm in diameter (you can DEFINITELY feel the difference in diameter) and will be very stiff. The knurling is generally heavier, the knurling marks are set based on the IPF standards (different than the IWF standards) and there will most certainly be center knurling. The steel in a good high-end powerlifting bar will be 200,000+ psi yield strength (as opposed to maybe 160,000 - 180,000 psi for a high-end Olympic lifting bar). Furthermore, these bars will use high-end bushings rather than needle bearings. This is to prevent counter-rotation (an uncomfortable and potentially dangerous reverse rotation when the sleeves spin TOO EASILY during a slow lift) and because high-end bushings are actually more durable than high-end needle bearings. I probably am not strong enough in the squat to really notice a performance difference between a high-end powerlifting bar and the Pendlay HD or the Rogue bars. You have to be pushing 500+ lbs to notice a difference. However, since my deadlift IS getting near there, I do (think) I notice a difference on 1RM deadlift attempts.

Anyway, that is probably more information than you really wanted.

Hope this helps,
brittf

[Allen Griffin]

Originally Posted by Robert Britt Freund

Hi Allen.

Did you get the 1000 lb test or the 1500 lb test York bar?

You have pretty decent numbers on your CFT, so you want a reasonable bar for the slow lifts.

The 1500 lb test York bar is pretty close to the Rogue Beater bar, although a tad bit thicker (32mm vs 31mm). The 1000 lb test bar is only 30mm.

Frankly, all three bars (Rogue Beater, York 1500, York 1000) are made out of relatively cheap steel. The Yorks appear to be chromed while the Rogue is black oxide (on the bar/grip). For feel, I prefer black oxide (chrome is a bit slippery) but for looks I prefer chrome, so this is a toss-up in my opinion .

If money is a constraint, then either the Rogue Beater or York 1500 will be fine for your slow lifts. They aren't "great" bars, but they will get the job done. I think you are getting strong enough to maybe stay away from the York 1000 lb bar. I don't think you will get hurt or that the bar will bend, necessarily, but be on the safe side. The good thing is that you won't be dropping this bar, as you have an HD (good EDT steel) for your dynamic lift bar. If you do end up having to drop the bar onto safeties in a 1RM slow lift attempt, any of the three bars might very well bend, but at least you won't get hurt.

I would bet that, if you did order the York 1000 and it hasn't shipped yet, Bill at Rogue will let you shift your order to either the York 1500 or the Beater.

I hope this helps somewhat.

Good luck on your lifts, and congrats on the nice CFT...

Regards,
brittf

Robert,

I did get the 1500lb York bar. And thanks for the kind words.

[Seth Cohen]

Originally Posted by Robert Britt Freund

The Eleiko is absolutely top of the line. 29mm diameter, with chromed sleeves and raw bar (no coating). The knurling is aggressive but not cheese grater and there is simply nothing better feeling than raw steel. I clean the bar after each use with a wire brush and WD-40 and it looks as good as the day I got it. It is simply the best bar I have ever used for heavy, slow lifts. It is stiff as a rock and doesn't flex at all. It uses super heavy-duty sintered bronze bushings that spin almost as well as needle bearings but has just enough friction to avoid counter-rotation (perfect).

Robert,

I have had a nagging question about this comment about the Eleiko bar. I have the Eleiko Men's Olympic Training bar and was under the impression that, outside of the weight certification, it was very similar to the Competition bar. However, unless I'm grossly mistaken, my bar is all chrome plated. I also have the B&R bar and the look and feel of the steel on the B&R bar and the Eleiko are quite different (the B&R feels better). Am I somehow mistaken or has Eleiko changed to an all chrome design?

Cheers,
Seth

[Robert Britt Freund]

Originally Posted by Seth Cohen

Robert,

I have had a nagging question about this comment about the Eleiko bar. I have the Eleiko Men's Olympic Training bar and was under the impression that, outside of the weight certification, it was very similar to the Competition bar. However, unless I'm grossly mistaken, my bar is all chrome plated. I also have the B&R bar and the look and feel of the steel on the B&R bar and the Eleiko are quite different (the B&R feels better). Am I somehow mistaken or has Eleiko changed to an all chrome design?

Cheers,
Seth

Hi Seth,

Let's make sure we are talking about the same bar. If you go back, you will note that I have the CERTIFIED COMPETITION Powerlifting bar from Eleiko, not their Olympic Weightlifting bar. For Olympic Weightlifting, I chose to go with the Werk-San bar and plates (mostly because I wanted to support USA Weightlifting and Leo Totten who, by all accounts, is a great guy). Since you reference their Men's Olympic Training bar, I am guessing we are talking about two different bars .

The Eleiko Powerlifting bar is a 29mm bar (not 28 mm like I would think your Olympic weightlifting bar is) with chromed sleeves and a raw bar (if you talk to Eleiko, they refer to it as an "untreated spring steel"). I was comparing it to the B&R bar since, in my opinion, they are both ideally suited for the slow lifts.

I have no information on the Eleiko Olympic weightlifting bar (either the certified or the training bars) and so can't comment.

Hope this helps clear things up.

Regards,
brittf

[Seth Cohen]

Originally Posted by Robert Britt Freund

Hi Seth,

Let's make sure we are talking about the same bar. If you go back, you will note that I have the CERTIFIED COMPETITION Powerlifting bar from Eleiko, not their Olympic Weightlifting bar. For Olympic Weightlifting, I chose to go with the Werk-San bar and plates (mostly because I wanted to support USA Weightlifting and Leo Totten who, by all accounts, is a great guy). Since you reference their Men's Olympic Training bar, I am guessing we are talking about two different bars .

The Eleiko Powerlifting bar is a 29mm bar (not 28 mm like I would think your Olympic weightlifting bar is) with chromed sleeves and a raw bar (if you talk to Eleiko, they refer to it as an "untreated spring steel"). I was comparing it to the B&R bar since, in my opinion, they are both ideally suited for the slow lifts.

I have no information on the Eleiko Olympic weightlifting bar (either the certified or the training bars) and so can't comment.

Hope this helps clear things up.

Regards,
brittf

You're right, I missed that. I was talking about the Olympic weighlifting bar. I didn't know Eleiko even made a powerlifting bar but it sure sounds sweet. Too bad I can't come up with a decent excuse to buy another bar at this point.

[Keith Miller]

Robert, what do you know about the York Olympic training bar? I am thinking about getting one. One of the reps is offering a 30-40% discount and is providing me with a quote. This will be a second bar, as I already have a Zhang Gong IWF certified competition bar. Just wondering your thoughts if you have lifted on one of these. Thanks,