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Old 05-18-2009, 09:20 PM   #371
Katherine Derbyshire
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Re: CrossFit Games Qualifier Observations

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Originally Posted by Joe Cavazos View Post
Alright, suppose the CF main page is a recommendation as to what to do. Or just a good idea. Not the best for any individual, but it's a faithful attempt at a one-size-fits-all program.

Why, then, do we expect the main page to make recommendations regarding strength and both types of endurance, but not flexibility or balance?
You keep making this point, but it seems to me the main page makes plenty of flexibility and balance related recommendations. Since May 6, we've seen:
handstand pushups (2x)
GHD situps and back extensions
air squats, back squats, and one-legged squats
(squat) clean and jerk

Unless you can do all of these unsupported with full ROM, you need additional skill work. I suspect this list will challenge anyone who isn't already a gymnast.

Katherine
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Old 05-18-2009, 09:30 PM   #372
Steven Low
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Re: CrossFit Games Qualifier Observations

Overdeveloping anything to "elite" levels (or rather close to your genetic potential) is going to be detrimental to other attributes.

It just so happens that developing flexibility to "elite" levels takes a much shorter time, and is probably easier to do than developing your strength to the point where it becomes detrimental to the other attributes.
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Old 05-18-2009, 10:06 PM   #373
Shane Skowron
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Re: CrossFit Games Qualifier Observations

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Originally Posted by Katherine Derbyshire View Post
What work are you trying to do? If you often need to look under things or fit into small spaces -- plumbers, electricians, mechanics, etc. -- flexibility is very useful.

Katherine
Yes, I said flexibility is useful.

The things you mentioned just require a base level of flexibility that all decent CFers have. Not advanced or elite. As I see it, the inability to wrap your legs around your head does not hinder your ability to accomplish basic physical tasks, whereas the inability to pull a 500# deadlift might.
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Old 05-18-2009, 11:00 PM   #374
Katherine Derbyshire
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Re: CrossFit Games Qualifier Observations

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Originally Posted by Shane Skowron View Post
Yes, I said flexibility is useful.

The things you mentioned just require a base level of flexibility that all decent CFers have. Not advanced or elite. As I see it, the inability to wrap your legs around your head does not hinder your ability to accomplish basic physical tasks, whereas the inability to pull a 500# deadlift might.
Dunno. I'm probably more likely to wrap my legs around my head than I am to deadlift nearly 4x my bodyweight, and there are a number of tasks that I can do that I'm pretty sure the 500# lifter at my affiliate can't. Wriggle behind the entertainment center and hold a low (ata) squat long enough to connect a whole boatload of wires, for instance. Or hang upside down with my head in the crawlspace looking for water under my house.

I think terms like "base level of xxx" and "all decent CFers" should be used with extreme caution. It's easy for big strong people to forget that 135 lbs is an advanced to elite level weight for smaller folks. And it's easy for flexible people to forget that for many people "below parallel" is a goal, not a starting point.

Katherine
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Old 05-19-2009, 03:03 AM   #375
Shane Skowron
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Re: CrossFit Games Qualifier Observations

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Originally Posted by Katherine Derbyshire View Post
Dunno. I'm probably more likely to wrap my legs around my head than I am to deadlift nearly 4x my bodyweight, and there are a number of tasks that I can do that I'm pretty sure the 500# lifter at my affiliate can't. Wriggle behind the entertainment center and hold a low (ata) squat long enough to connect a whole boatload of wires, for instance. Or hang upside down with my head in the crawlspace looking for water under my house.
None of those things require advanced flexibility. Anyone with decent flexibility can do those things.

Show me how being able to turn into a pretzel will allow you to do more GPP.
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Old 05-19-2009, 06:09 AM   #376
Justin McCallon
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Re: CrossFit Games Qualifier Observations

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Originally Posted by Steven Low View Post
Overdeveloping anything to "elite" levels (or rather close to your genetic potential) is going to be detrimental to other attributes.
You've made this point a couple times. Do you mean solely that it is so demanding to get to an elite level that you can't reasonably develop other attributes? Or, are you actually saying that super-high strength somehow hurts something like endurance? (i.e. it's pretty well accepted that extreme hamstring flexibility does reduce speed, although I think this is an exception)

In either case, I don't see any reason why you would change the competition based on such facts.
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Old 05-19-2009, 06:24 AM   #377
Jay Ashman
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Re: CrossFit Games Qualifier Observations

This is a serious bunny trail that deviated from the original topic... wow
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Old 05-19-2009, 06:46 AM   #378
Shane Skowron
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Re: CrossFit Games Qualifier Observations

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Originally Posted by Justin McCallon View Post
You've made this point a couple times. Do you mean solely that it is so demanding to get to an elite level that you can't reasonably develop other attributes? Or, are you actually saying that super-high strength somehow hurts something like endurance? (i.e. it's pretty well accepted that extreme hamstring flexibility does reduce speed, although I think this is an exception)
In either case, I don't see any reason why you would change the competition based on such facts.

Uh..because certain things aren't physically possible and the point of the games is to see where exactly the limit is.

Strength increases the capacity for endurance at moderate levels. However extreme strength and extreme endurance are mutually antagonistic. Same with extreme power and extreme endurance, extreme flexibility and extreme endurance, and there are a few other examples.

This is the reason no one has ever done a 650# deadlift and a 4:30 mile in the same week. It might not be physically possible.

The reason is that the above achievements require some amount of genetics, but mostly require intense amount of specific preparation. Any time not spent in specific training will be spent in recovery. If you try to take that recovery time and instead train for a world-class performance in a completely different mode of activity, both of them are going to suffer. It's the same reason it's not recommended you run while doing Starting Strength.

David Goggins used to be a decent powerlifter. Now he's an elite ultra endurance athlete. Although he's still really strong, he probably can't compete at powerlifting anymore because the training schedules for each sport are so different.



I think there are a few people in the world who can manage a 5:00 mile and a 500# deadlift. There may be a couple who can do a 4:45 mile and a 550# deadlift. Where the limit is, nobody knows at this point. This is what the Games are for.
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Old 05-19-2009, 08:40 AM   #379
Justin McCallon
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Re: CrossFit Games Qualifier Observations

Yeah, I wasn't exactly missing any of those points.

When deciding on the events for the games, I don't see any reason why these facts are consequential at all.
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Old 05-26-2009, 11:50 AM   #380
Glen Pennington
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Re: CrossFit Games Qualifier Observations

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Originally Posted by Michael Donohue View Post
No it didn't.

Deads/Run. Pullup/FS/Burpee. Bar Overhead
Probably confusing it with the Midwest Qualifier that had KB Thrusters.

WOD 2:

7 Double Kettlebell Thrusters - Men (2) 24KG/Women (2) 16KG

11 Burpees

5 Rounds for Time!
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