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-   -   PLEASE HELP me prove this CF hater wrong.. (http://board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=58093)

Ryan Grady 05-11-2010 06:47 AM

PLEASE HELP me prove this CF hater wrong..
 
A buddy of mine is a track coach at a local high school. I introduced him to CF and he did a few workouts and then posted this on his website:
[center]Who here does Crossfit? I have tried some of the workouts myself and do enjoy them because I can get a workout in within 20 minutes. However, after consulting with some REALLY knowledgebale athletic trainers who take time traveling the world consulting with some of the most knowledgeable athletic trainers about functional training. They have declared Cross fit is another fad just like Parisi Speed School. I know this will annoy some of my friends who follow Crossfit like a cult and dont get me wrong I still enjoy doing the workouts myself. Crossfit should not be used for athletes. All Crossfit will do is make you better at Crossfit. You will still be tested as average in all functional movement tests. There are not protocol tests, the exercises are in the wrong order, insufficient instruction for teaching movements (look at any video, u cant teach someone thru just a video), inappropriaten repetitions for exercises (no theory, just want to exhaust you) (ex. doing 25 power cleans= it is an explosive movement and should never be used as an aerobic exercise, ask anyone knowledgeable trainer), Crossfit puts random exercises together that should never be grouped together according to functional training. I could go on and on about how stupid some of the workouts are because they have no point. The funniest are the explosive movement exercises that are done as aerobic workouts. Again, Crossfit is selling a brand name. That is it. However, i will continue to use some of the workouts because I am not training for anything. I would never endorse it for any athletes. I would also turn my athletes away from it.[/CENTER]

PLEASE!!! those of you who are more experienced and knowledgeable than me HELP ME PROVE HIM WRONG!! i cant argue with him because frankly i just get so ****ed and start stumbling over my words... ppppplllease HELP!!

Eileen Schreiber 05-11-2010 07:00 AM

Re: PLEASE HELP me prove this CF hater wrong..
 
Ryan, I think you just let it go. Someone whose mind is made up to such an extreme after just a few workouts really does NOT want to hear what you, or anyone else has to say.

I know guys hate giving up that fight, but this guy is already convinced.

I can tell you this, too. CrossFit does not make me better at tennis. CrossFit makes me stronger and makes me fitter, and makes me better at WODs, but it doesn't help me at all when I'm standing on the courts trying to be a better tennis player.

So some of us also have to take a step back and realize that there is a point to saying CrossFit makes us better at CrossFit - but maybe not better at the particular skills involved in other athletics.

I'm sure others will disagree and have my head. But if you can make me a better tennis player by CrossFit.. do it!

Nic Kirkland 05-11-2010 07:08 AM

Re: PLEASE HELP me prove this CF hater wrong..
 
Standalone CrossFit is not a good training program for competitive athletes. They are specialists. CrossFit is not for specialists. The degree to which their sport requires specialization correlates to the degree to which CrossFit will be an appropriate Strength and Conditioning program for them. Endurance athletes, of any kind, are, in my mind, the most specialized athletes, for whom CrossFit alone will not adequately prepare them. Athletes in sports that utilize many of the 10 physical skills, such as football or rugby, where power, strength, speed, agility, stamina, coordination, and CRE are all important will benefit more.

That said, they can all benefit from CrossFit. Every athlete can benefit from GPP. That's why even Endurance athletes do Strength & Conditioning. In my opinion CF is the best program for GPP out there because it is based around constantly varied functional movements performed at high intensity, which elicits some great athletic adaptations in folks doing the program and does so in a timely manner (most workouts are <20 minutes). Also one of the great benefits, in my mind, is that it improves aerobic capacity without overusing the body (no LSD running) while simultaneously increasing anaerobic capacity.

Mike McGee 05-11-2010 07:13 AM

Re: PLEASE HELP me prove this CF hater wrong..
 
Ryan, I remember watching a video where Coach Classman was saying that Crossfit won't make you (average person) a better football player, but it will make a football player a better football player. CrossFit should not substitute sport specific training. It should be used in conjunction with it. One of the aspects of fitness/Crossfit is learn/play new sports. If all you do is CrossFit, then yes, all CrossFit will do is make you better at CrossFit. I don't play any specific sports, but when I do play pick-up games, I can feel how better conditioned I am now that I CrossFit vs. when I didn't.

Good Luck!!

[quote=However, after consulting with some REALLY knowledgebale athletic trainers who take time traveling the world consulting with some of the most knowledgeable athletic trainers about functional training. They have declared Cross fit is another fad just like Parisi Speed School.[/QUOTE]

I hate when people phrase things like this... Who are the knowledgeable trainers he's talking about. If you are going to reference someone or something, you should be more specific, especially if you want to sound credible.

Mike

Ross Waller 05-11-2010 07:21 AM

Re: PLEASE HELP me prove this CF hater wrong..
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Eileen Schreiber (Post 782277)
Ryan, I think you just let it go. Someone whose mind is made up to such an extreme after just a few workouts really does NOT want to hear what you, or anyone else has to say.

I know guys hate giving up that fight, but this guy is already convinced.

I can tell you this, too. CrossFit does not make me better at tennis. CrossFit makes me stronger and makes me fitter, and makes me better at WODs, but it doesn't help me at all when I'm standing on the courts trying to be a better tennis player.

So some of us also have to take a step back and realize that there is a point to saying CrossFit makes us better at CrossFit - but maybe not better at the particular skills involved in other athletics.

I'm sure others will disagree and have my head. But if you can make me a better tennis player by CrossFit.. do it!

Eileen is spot on, if CF makes a person perform better in an athletic arena, that's simply because that person wasn't utilizing their physical potential.

I will disagree with Nic, that not all athletes can benefit from CF, because if they're training properly for their discipline, they're covering all the bases needed, and a general program like CF won't add anything.

The track coach has a valid point regarding explosive or power movements being overused. Movements such as cleans, snatches and deadlifts require very precise form, or the risk of injury greatly increases. It is possible to use such movements for higher rep work, but with a class full of CFers, there aren't always enough eyes watching form. This is even more critical when you consider how many people do their work on their own, with virtually no coaching.

Jamie J. Skibicki 05-11-2010 07:39 AM

Re: PLEASE HELP me prove this CF hater wrong..
 
"All Crossfit will do is make you better at Crossfit."
Mainpage CF will increase GPP. If you have a weakness in GPP that is affecting your game, CF will help you. Outside of that, taloring CF to address specific areas (CFFB, CFE, etc) will be a benefit to most athletes

"You will still be tested as average in all functional movement tests."
Comapred to whom?

"insufficient instruction for teaching movements"
I agree with this

"look at any video, u cant teach someone thru just a video"
You can't teach someone form good enough to compete, but you don't need to. You need to teach them form good enough to not injure themselves and to make the excersize useful. I would also counter with the crap that passes as a clean or squat or bench at the high school and college level show most coaches can't teach the movements in person

"inappropriaten repetitions for exercises"
I don't agree with high rep full oly lifts, but no problem with the power versions. No one ***** about pavel doing high rep 1 armed version, why does two go and screw it all up?

"Crossfit puts random exercises together that should never be grouped together according to functional training."
I think there are some excersizes that shouldn't go together, hypers and deadlifts or sprints and deadlifts, that sort of thing. Other than that, pretty much anything goes, though some combinations are better than others. If he mentioned specifics, it would be easier to argue against.

And what is "functional training?" Surely the football players doing curls, leg press and tricep push downs at the gym isn't functional training.



Another point he's missing is CF is not good compared to what? Yes, to a dedicated sport specific program done by a professional who knows what they are doing, mainpage is severly lacking. But compare to 90% of what is out there, CF is the best thing since bacon.

But there are CF trainers that have modified CF, while still keeping the principles to address athletes needs. There are affiliates that have classes that specialize in endurance, strength, fighter prep, field sports, etc.

I'd put a CF level 1 with at 1 year experience and 1 other cert up against a high school coach and most college coaches anyday when it comes to teaching the lifts and movements.

Eileen Schreiber 05-11-2010 07:42 AM

Re: PLEASE HELP me prove this CF hater wrong..
 
At SW Regionals this past weekend, the Games were held right next to the tennis courts. It was interesting for me, a tennis player, to take that in.

Could the tennis players flip tires, carry logs, do muscle ups, do mad overhead lifts, etc? NO. I bet they could not.

But could any of the crossfitters stand on the court and do what has taken those tennis players years and years of practice to master?

NO.

My interest is in how CrossFit will evolve into adaptable training for other sports. I need speed, agility, eye-hand coordination and stamina for tennis. What can I do in CrossFit to attain that?

Don't mean to jack your thread, but in a way, this is the answer to your question. How can CrossFit evolve so that it is more applicable to specialized athletes who really could care less about flipping tires and muscle ups? How do athletes use crossfit for their benefit?

Ryan Grady 05-11-2010 08:11 AM

Re: PLEASE HELP me prove this CF hater wrong..
 
excellent replies everyone.. thanks

eileen - tennis players are not athletes so they dont count... TOTALLY KIDDING

seriously, i would argue this (off the top of my head) for a specific discussion on CF and tennis:
1) look at serena williams.... that girl is JACKED and she didnt get that way from eating pizza and doing bicep curls at the gym... she may not use CF, but in order to obtain some of her God-given and self-created physical attributes, i believe CF would be a great way to close the gap. serena and all of the new generation tennis stars have proven that tennis has become a POWER game and no longer a finesse game as in the days of chris everett and gabriella sabatini (loved her). BUT its not just power - its the ability to have the COORDINATION, STABILITY, BALANCE, ENDURANCE and POWER to play... all words i believe are in the CF definition of "fitness"
2) ok eileen... there you are... 3rd set... tiebreaker... 2 hour match in the 90 degree heat... your legs are BURNING, your arm is about to fall off and you need to muster up the strength - BOTH MENTAL AND PHYSICAL - to finish the match... what prepares you better for that: 3 sets of 10 bench press, or a grueling WOD involving burpees and boxjumps and pullups and double unders that forces you to push yourself to new boundaries and limits you never before thought possible?

point being this: CF, as previously stated on this thread, can ABSOLUTELY be tailored for sports specific training. maybe not bowling as much as rugby... but generally speaking.

ONE MORE THING: isnt there a mental benefit from doing CF? perhaps this cannot be verified with numbers or stats, but ever since i started CF, my confidence on the field (i play rugby) and in life in general has SKYROCKETED. knowing that i can complete a workout that most people would rather pass on, knowing that in 20 minutes i accomplish more than the steroided/meathead does in 3 hours of back and bis... its a great feeling that can benefit EVERY athlete and non-athlete alike...

Eileen Schreiber 05-11-2010 08:31 AM

Re: PLEASE HELP me prove this CF hater wrong..
 
Hi Ryan.

I love CrossFit! I mean, I ADORE it, I'm addicted, my license plate says xfitfem and soon it will say xftcoug (yes!), so I really agree with you that our beloved CrossFit makes us strong, badass and fit, no question!

But Serena got to where she is without it. So did Roger and Rafa. How on earth did that happen? LOL

I had a tennis lesson a little while ago. My coach put me through 90 seconds of footwork, just 90 seconds, and I almost collapsed on the courts. Me, Ms. I'm so badass I'm a CrossFitter.. he laughed at me.

Where do you get the strength and stamina for 3d set tiebreaker in the extreme heat with a player that is making you fight for every point?

Honestly Ryan, I'd say its from having forced yourself to play 3-5 hours of hard tennis in the sun as practice. My WODs just arent going to give me the mental focus, stamina and endurance I'd need for grueling it out over that long of a time.

BUT. I am a die hard CrossFitter. I want to me more badass next year than now. I want to be stronger, faster, leaner. I want to lift mad weights for lots of reps and do untold amounts of pullups and get my muscle ups and HSPUs and kill Fran and Helen and Grace.


And doing all of that makes me more confident, makes me look a LOT better naked, makes me love life more and more (cause of the drugs my bod is producing?) and makes me simply HAPPY. I would never give it up for all the things CrossFit does for me.

But will it help me run that friggin short ball down and precisely swing so the sweetspot gets it past my opponent?

What do you think? :)

PS. Go Rugby!!!!

P.P.S. - Of course I believe CrossFit will do better than an hour in the gym doing bicep curls. We do agree!

Jamie J. Skibicki 05-11-2010 08:32 AM

Re: PLEASE HELP me prove this CF hater wrong..
 
"there you are... 3rd set... tiebreaker... 2 hour match in the 90 degree heat... your legs are BURNING, your arm is about to fall off and you need to muster up the strength - BOTH MENTAL AND PHYSICAL - to finish the match... what prepares you better for that: 3 sets of 10 bench press, or a grueling WOD involving burpees and boxjumps and pullups and double unders that forces you to push yourself to new boundaries and limits you never before thought possible? "

You also have to ask what will better prepare you for not getting there by beating your opponent more quickly.


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