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-   -   Critique please... (http://board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=29594)

Bryan Bentley 03-28-2008 08:16 AM

Critique please...
 
On the track;

Tabata intervals in this fashion. Sprint/Push-ups for the 8 rounds.

Any suggestions? I ran for 15 minutes prior to starting the intervals. Only tricky part was trying not to slam the ******* timer down when hitting the push-ups. Jogged for another 5+ minutes after the intervals to cool down.

Any suggestions for pre-tabata training? I like doing them on the concept2.

I hate when people try to talk to me after doing them. I can't answer them because I'm out of breath and about to yak!:eek:

Gant Grimes 03-28-2008 08:20 AM

Re: Critique please...
 
In my limited experience with these types, mixed-exercise Tabata training doesn't work as well as single exercise. It provides a hell of a workout, but it doesn't produce the intended effect of Tabata.

Bryan Bentley 03-28-2008 08:48 AM

Re: Critique please...
 
Thanks Grant. So stick to just sprinting without the push-ups. Sounds good to me. What about pre and post tabata?

Brian Degenaro 03-28-2008 09:09 AM

Re: Critique please...
 
Heh... Tabata sprints are probably the worst thing you can do. Not because they hurt like hell, but because even without getting halfway through the 8 rounds your performance drops off enormously; the point of Tabata is to have a constant output (~75% of your max effort). Don't forget that by the time you slow down you've used up ~5s of your rest time, so your rest is compromised. It is a very ineffective way to improve your sprinting. I suggest reversing the interval order so you do 10s on/20s off. You will get much more out of your sprints that way.

Bryan Bentley 03-28-2008 09:24 AM

Re: Critique please...
 
Thanks Brian. Makes sense. I'll be sure to give that reversal a try next time I sprint. As far as utilizing the standard 20/10 tabata formula, can you more effectively achieve this on the concept2? If you can also share some other routines where the 20/10 is still effective.

Brian Degenaro 03-28-2008 09:32 AM

Re: Critique please...
 
On a cycle or rower regular Tabata works because there is no effort used in "braking" nor does stopping take up any time. The regular Tabata interval works for practically anything as long as you can keep up the intensity and pace. Ideally, Tabata intervals stop once there is a significant drop off in your performance. So if your performance can't be maintained, it is not good for Tabata.

Bryan Bentley 03-28-2008 10:56 AM

Re: Critique please...
 
Very helpful. Many thanks and I'll be sure to apply that to my tabata workouts.

Matthew Doyle 03-28-2008 02:50 PM

Re: Critique please...
 
Brian, I'm curious where you got the idea of a tabata being done at 75%? Everything I've read about the original protocol, suggest the intervals are done at a full sprint. The idea is not to improve your sprinting (though that is one of the benefits) but to improve overall aerobic efficiency. I'm introducing this to my sports team, so trying to gather as much information as I can.

Thanks,

Matt

Steven Low 03-28-2008 03:05 PM

Re: Critique please...
 
wfs
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...=pubmed_DocSum

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abstract
Effects of moderate-intensity endurance and high-intensity intermittent training on anaerobic capacity and VO2max.

Tabata I, Nishimura K, Kouzaki M, Hirai Y, Ogita F, Miyachi M, Yamamoto K.

Department of Physiology and Biomechanics, National Institute of Fitness and Sports, Kagoshima Prefecture, Japan.

This study consists of two training experiments using a mechanically braked cycle ergometer. First, the effect of 6 wk of moderate-intensity endurance training (intensity: 70% of maximal oxygen uptake (VO2max), 60 min.d-1, 5 d.wk-1) on the anaerobic capacity (the maximal accumulated oxygen deficit) and VO2max was evaluated. After the training, the anaerobic capacity did not increase significantly (P > 0.10), while VO2max increased from 53 +/- 5 ml.kg-1 min-1 to 58 +/- 3 ml.kg-1.min-1 (P < 0.01) (mean +/- SD). Second, to quantify the effect of high-intensity intermittent training on energy release, seven subjects performed an intermittent training exercise 5 d.wk-1 for 6 wk. The exhaustive intermittent training consisted of seven to eight sets of 20-s exercise at an intensity of about 170% of VO2max with a 10-s rest between each bout. After the training period, VO2max increased by 7 ml.kg-1.min-1, while the anaerobic capacity increased by 28%. In conclusion, this study showed that moderate-intensity aerobic training that improves the maximal aerobic power does not change anaerobic capacity and that adequate high-intensity intermittent training may improve both anaerobic and aerobic energy supplying systems significantly, probably through imposing intensive stimuli on both systems.

Per Brian summary of tabata study (non-abstract) from paper

wfs
http://www.vibrantfitness.com/romstudies.html

Quote:

Izumi Tabata and his colleagues at the National Institute of Fitness and Sports in Tokyo, Japan, compared the effects of moderate-intensity endurance training and high-intensity intermittent training on VO2 max and anaerobic capacity. The high intensity training method had been used for members of the Japanese Speed Skating Team for several years. Moderate-intensity workouts were for one hour, compared to only 4 minutes per workouts for the high intensity group.
In the moderate intensity group, seven active young male physical education majors exercised on stationary bikes 5 days per week for 6 weeks at 70% of VO2 max 60 minutes each session. VO2 max was measured before and after the training and every week during the 6 week period. As each subject’s VO2 max improved, exercise intensity was increased to keep them pedaling at 70% of their actual VO2 max. Maximal accumulated oxygen deficit was also measured, before, at 4 weeks, and after the training.
A second group followed a high intensity interval program. Seven students, also young and physically active, exercised five days per week using a training program similar to the Japanese speed skaters. After a 10 minutes warm-up, the subjects did seven to eight sets of 20 seconds at 270% of VO2 max, with a 10 second rest between each bout. Pedaling speed was 90 rpm and sets were terminated when rpms dropped below 85. When subjects could complete more than 9 sets, exercise intensity was increased by 11 watts. The training protocol was altered one day per week. On that day, the students exercised for 30 minutes at 70% of VO2 max before doing 4 sets of 20 seconds intervals at 170% of VO2 max. This latter session was not continued to exhaustion. Again, VO2 max and anaerobic capacity was determined before, during and after the training.

Basically go as hard as you can but when your intensity drops below a certain point you're supposed to terminate.

Brian Degenaro 03-28-2008 03:19 PM

Re: Critique please...
 
Well, Matthew, I remember reading the actual paper Tabata et al had written a few months ago, and it states that the intervals were terminated after the athlete's RPMs dropped below a certain number (I think it was 90rpms) in a set. If I can get my hands on the copy again I'll gladly quote it. And looking back at my post I was just thinking out loud by accident. What I was thinking was that once your performance drops below 75% of your previous efforts it would be time to terminate the intervals.


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