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-   -   What is a typical front squat to back squat ratio? (https://board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=80959)

Andrew Joseph 03-12-2013 09:01 AM

What is a typical front squat to back squat ratio?
 
I've done back squats for years but I've never done front squats before joining Crossfit. Obviously there is a bit of awkwardness in my technique to overcome but, assuming I get that down, what types of weight should I start training with and what is a typical 1RM for front squats if a 1RM for back squats is around 315?

Jeff Enge 03-12-2013 09:03 AM

Re: What is a typical front squat to back squat ratio?
 
Do you back squat high bar or low bar? High bar recruits muscle groups very similar to the front squat, while low bar is more hammy-driven. This could make a big difference for what you ratio is, and even how much correlation actually exists.

Kid Jansen 03-12-2013 09:46 AM

Re: What is a typical front squat to back squat ratio?
 
Like Jeff said it depends a lot on whether you do high bar or low bar back squats.

My personal bests are 117.5 kg front squat and 150 kg high bar back squat, which gives a ratio of 0.78 : 1.

But even though I do high bar I still do my back squat quite hamstring driven rather than quad driven. I bend over more than most people doing high bar, especially on the way back up. Might be because I go ATG.

With a good quad driven front squat you should be able to hit 85% of your high bar back squat, maybe even 90% if you do a lot of olympic lifting.

Clint Harris 03-12-2013 10:00 AM

Re: What is a typical front squat to back squat ratio?
 
This is a bit like how much can you press versus jerk. I have heard ratio's like 70% or 80% etc - but in a lot of cases (especially in beginning) it will mean little as your form will play a difference. For example, early on, my FS(255) was a bigger ratio of my BS(300) because my BS form wasn't as good as my FS. Now, my BS form is better and my BS is 375 vs 275 FS (I haven't tested FS in months, pretty sure it will have gone up).
The reality is, just get under the bar and test, then work off of that.
Alternatively, do a linear progression. Start a weight you know you can do that is light, like 150# just for example, then each week or session add 5# to it. Eventually, you'll get heavy but while it is light you work on form. So session 1 is <sets> of 150. Session 2 is <sets> or 155, Session 3 is <sets> of 160 and so on.

Also, for the HBBS and LBBS. I've given up on caring about that. Now, I just put the bar on my back and lift the ****ing thing. I swear that has made a world of difference to me.

Andrew Joseph 03-12-2013 11:17 AM

Re: What is a typical front squat to back squat ratio?
 
[QUOTE=Jeff Enge;1147483]Do you back squat high bar or low bar? High bar recruits muscle groups very similar to the front squat, while low bar is more hammy-driven. This could make a big difference for what you ratio is, and even how much correlation actually exists.[/QUOTE]
I guess I've squatted more than I've researched squatting. Can you tell me what the difference is between "high bar" and "low bar"?

Eric Montgomery 03-12-2013 11:21 AM

Re: What is a typical front squat to back squat ratio?
 
[URL="https://www.google.com/search?q=starting+strength+high+bar+low+bar&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=kGp&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=ymg_Uc3HOKzU0gGP8IHYAw&ved=0CAoQ_AUoAQ&biw=1440&bih=719#imgrc=iN83G2X_6bkygM%3A%3BOJeduHmeLFbx5M%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fbighorncrossfit.com%252Fwp-content%252Fuploads%252F2012%252F11%252Fsquat.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fbighorncrossfit.com%252Fhigh-bar-vs-low-bar-back-squat%252F%3B500%3B324"]Here[/URL] and [URL="http://70sbig.com/blog/2012/01/low-bar-vs-high-bar-squatting/"]here[/URL] (WFS)

Dustin Wintczak 03-12-2013 11:27 AM

Re: What is a typical front squat to back squat ratio?
 
[B]Highbar[/B] = bar is resting high on your shoulders, generally above your traps. Feet are generally shoulder with or narrower. Movement is started by breaking the knees first (not the hips is in LB). Drop straight down, keeping torso as upright as possible, get low. Squat up

[B]Lowbar [/B]= bar is resting farther down your back, generally on the shelf created by your traps. Feet are generally wider than shoulder witdth. Movement starts with break at the hips. Squat down and back a bit, torso may come forward more (because of bar placement and the need to keep center of gravity in the right place). Squat until hip crease passes knees.

That's basically the difference, like Jeff said LBBS is more postier (glutes, hamstrings). HBBS is more anterior (quads). Most people can LB squat more than they can HB but neither technique is "better" or more "correct" than the other. It all depends on your goals.

EDIT: Or read the links Eric posted lol

Andrew Joseph 03-12-2013 11:42 AM

Re: What is a typical front squat to back squat ratio?
 
I guess I do a high bar squat, although I keep my stance pretty wide. Sounds like 75%-85% of my BS should be a goal. I can tell you that will be a ways off, but hopefully the gains will happen quickly once the motion feels comfortable with lighter weights.

John Holcombe 03-12-2013 11:56 AM

Re: What is a typical front squat to back squat ratio?
 
I do high bar. FS - 235 BS -285

ratio = 82%

Lincoln Brigham 03-12-2013 12:27 PM

Re: What is a typical front squat to back squat ratio?
 
Competitive Olympic lifters typically front squat ~ 90% of their back squat. That's assuming a high bar, upright, deep backsquat -- which is assuming a lot. That's best-case scenario.


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