CrossFit Discussion Board

CrossFit Discussion Board (http://board.crossfit.com/index.php)
-   Competitions (http://board.crossfit.com/forumdisplay.php?f=9)
-   -   Amateur division (http://board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=86522)

Steven Thunander 03-13-2014 08:24 PM

Amateur division
 
I was giving this a thought, thinking that CFHQ should create another division of games athlete: The Amateur division

To be defined as an amateur, the athlete would have to:
1. Never made it to the games (Carson) since 2010
2. Can not own a box, coach in a box, or draw a salary from CrossFit HQ or an affiliate, or otherwise receive any payment for crossfit activities, or have done so in the recent past (5 years).
3. Cannot have a sponsorship for their activities in Crossfit at any time.
4. The athlete must either have employment at the time of registration or be a full time student.

There would be no purse for the amateur winner.

Your thoughts on this...

Helen M Brennan 03-14-2014 12:22 AM

Re: Amateur division
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Thunander (Post 1223902)
I was giving this a thought, thinking that CFHQ should create another division of games athlete: The Amateur division

To be defined as an amateur, the athlete would have to:
1. Never made it to the games (Carson) since 2010
2. Can not own a box, coach in a box, or draw a salary from CrossFit HQ or an affiliate, or otherwise receive any payment for crossfit activities, or have done so in the recent past (5 years).
3. Cannot have a sponsorship for their activities in Crossfit at any time.
4. The athlete must either have employment at the time of registration or be a full time student.

There would be no purse for the amateur winner.

Your thoughts on this...

what about masters people.. we may not all be employed, for that matter there are others who may not fill the requirement of being employed or a full time student

H

Ryan Gonzalez 03-14-2014 05:54 AM

Re: Amateur division
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Thunander (Post 1223902)
I was giving this a thought, thinking that CFHQ should create another division of games athlete: The Amateur division

To be defined as an amateur, the athlete would have to:
1. Never made it to the games (Carson) since 2010
2. Can not own a box, coach in a box, or draw a salary from CrossFit HQ or an affiliate, or otherwise receive any payment for crossfit activities, or have done so in the recent past (5 years).
3. Cannot have a sponsorship for their activities in Crossfit at any time.
4. The athlete must either have employment at the time of registration or be a full time student.

There would be no purse for the amateur winner.

Your thoughts on this...

I think something like this would be a good idea. Having a crossfit affiliated tournament for unsponsored athletes would be welcomed into the crossfit community. The amateur and elite athletes could all do the same Open workouts but they just have a separate check box when you sign up. I don't think they will do this because CrossFit HQ really pushes the inclusiveness of the open.

Richard Deyan 03-14-2014 02:06 PM

Re: Amateur division
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Thunander (Post 1223902)
I was giving this a thought, thinking that CFHQ should create another division of games athlete: The Amateur division

To be defined as an amateur, the athlete would have to:
1. Never made it to the games (Carson) since 2010
2. Can not own a box, coach in a box, or draw a salary from CrossFit HQ or an affiliate, or otherwise receive any payment for crossfit activities, or have done so in the recent past (5 years).
3. Cannot have a sponsorship for their activities in Crossfit at any time.
4. The athlete must either have employment at the time of registration or be a full time student.

There would be no purse for the amateur winner.

Your thoughts on this...

I think this sounds like a good idea. It's such a good idea that it's already happening around the world in the form of local competitions not related to CFHQ at all. Unless you're trying to compete in the OC Throwdown or these KillCliff competitions, I don't think you're going to run into any major athletes from the Games. Yes you'll come across mostly coaches and box owners, but the rule that you can't be employed by CFHQ or work at a box is nice, but it can easily be loopholed. I've seen plenty of legit athletes who are personal trainers at a globogym. What about gyms like Catalyst Athletics? They are starting to have their own affiliation program. It's essentially Robb Wolf and Greg Everett's own personal take on what they think the best fitness program is. It's not Crossfit but it's very similar. There's plenty of gyms like that all over the world who either don't want to pay affiliation dues/don't agree with some CF ideas/doctrine and/or don't want to deal with CFHQ.

Clint Harris 03-14-2014 02:54 PM

Re: Amateur division
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Thunander (Post 1223902)
I was giving this a thought, thinking that CFHQ should create another division of games athlete: The Amateur division

To be defined as an amateur, the athlete would have to:
1. Never made it to the games (Carson) since 2010
2. Can not own a box, coach in a box, or draw a salary from CrossFit HQ or an affiliate, or otherwise receive any payment for crossfit activities, or have done so in the recent past (5 years).
3. Cannot have a sponsorship for their activities in Crossfit at any time.
4. The athlete must either have employment at the time of registration or be a full time student.

There would be no purse for the amateur winner.

Your thoughts on this...

From a spectator perspective - who'd want to watch that ? (Just giving perspective - not argument). Other than a tiny population. It's unfortunate, but it really is the same as the "masters" bucket. Yes, it's great and all, and inspiring. But watching someone take 2 minutes to run 400m after lifting 55# is not great TV for more than 5 minutes. Sorry.

If they did this, I'd have to think they'd run it on an entirely different weekend or period of time. IMHO, much like amateur golf, boxing, etc.

Take USGA golf for a perfect example. (This is not the PGA or Web Tours). To simplify things, they run the Open (think games) and they run Amateur tournament (with rules like yours). Both have a qualifying process not unlike the open > regional > games and both are run at different times of the year. Forget about the format involved, but logistically, to give each one a fair shake, the USGA have to operate them as separate events. The Amateurs (who are good enough) can try to compete in both (forgoing payment) but the pro's can only compete in the Open division.
Both events are run well for those individuals who compete in them. To combine them will degrade the competition/event somewhere.
TV coverage is a multimillion $$ affair for the USOpen, however, the US Amateur is like a 1am infomercial .... the infomercial may actually win for airtime (The US Am is getting better coverage - like more than one camera on course and aired live during the day, but the PGA Tour does still take precedence for prime time).. It's like a sub-culture of people who actually want to watch it. The amateurs are the next big stars, for sure, however the quality of those fields aren't really that deep. Only a top 1-2% will actually make it to that next level (pro/open) and the fields aren't really all that interesting to watch (overall). I think it'd be the same for the "amateur" cross fitters. Lack of depth and watchable talent.

It sucks, but there's only so many resources and only so many people who want to watch "sub-standard" performances.

Ryan Gonzalez 03-14-2014 03:53 PM

Re: Amateur division
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Clint Harris (Post 1224070)
... But watching someone take 2 minutes to run 400m after lifting 55# is not great TV for more than 5 minutes. Sorry.

You might be surprised by how good amateur crossfitters are.

Steven Wingo 03-14-2014 05:07 PM

Re: Amateur division
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan Gonzalez (Post 1224074)
You might be surprised by how good amateur crossfitters are.

Very true.

With a few very small exceptions, for those at the very very top with sponsorships, I would say most of the best CrossFitters are amateurs. The ones who own and run their own boxes are probably less likely to be Regional and Games competitors--they are too busy running their businesses. I bet a lot of the best CrossFitters are folks who coach part time and also work other jobs for income. They are just extremely dedicated and make workouts and recovery a priority in their lives. Their lives, by choice, revolve around CrossFit.

It is easy to underestimate how difficult it is to coach and how much it takes away from your own training. Standing on your feet for hours every day, concentrating on members' form, demonstrating technique to them, answering their questions, keeping track of time every class to keep everyone on schedule, and so on is draining.

Chris Diamont 03-14-2014 05:21 PM

Re: Amateur division
 
Who cares if anyone is watching or if the games would be televised. I like the idea because it would give everyone else a chance to compete. And I do think there would be a market for it. Saying no one is interested is like saying no one watches DII college football yet every week the stadiums are packed. If they had amateur games a ton of people would go watch just like a ton of people go to all the local competitions every week to watch. I would watch. Great idea!!

Clint Harris 03-14-2014 07:09 PM

Re: Amateur division
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Wingo (Post 1224082)
Very true.

With a few very small exceptions, for those at the very very top with sponsorships, I would say most of the best CrossFitters are amateurs. The ones who own and run their own boxes are probably less likely to be Regional and Games competitors--they are too busy running their businesses. I bet a lot of the best CrossFitters are folks who coach part time and also work other jobs for income. They are just extremely dedicated and make workouts and recovery a priority in their lives. Their lives, by choice, revolve around CrossFit.

It is easy to underestimate how difficult it is to coach and how much it takes away from your own training. Standing on your feet for hours every day, concentrating on members' form, demonstrating technique to them, answering their questions, keeping track of time every class to keep everyone on schedule, and so on is draining.

Normal work is also draining and affects CF.

Those weights and time was referring to the masters. (not the 40 year old killers).
I won't be surprised at the amateur level. The gym I went to last year fielded a team and an athlete at the games. So I guess they are all out.
Then there's a couple more who didn't make it to the games, but are realistic about making the games (finish 4th and stuff). They are both sponsored and gym owners. So they are out.
We had a lot of visitors too when the "big boys played". So I've seen what they can do. All great stuff. Most of them are sponsored in a number of ways, don't work full-time, or are box-owners.
Then there's the next level of athlete at the gym. Those guys that are worth watching - perhaps inside the top 1-200 in the region and just barely miss/make regionals. Now, they play in the affiliate cups and local competitions, and most of them do have some form of sponsorship. Be it from the team level or individual. Often it's services and product, but it's still sponsorship. So they're all out.
Obviously it's not all of them, but the quality is quickly diminishing as-is the depth of field. I mean, it's hard enough fielding a full quality compliment of field in the "teams" at regionals.

Now we're left with the rest. They're pretty much the guys who fill-in or are pretty good. Often "better" because they can do more pull-ups and actually do muscle-ups - but not really that spectacular. They probably go to the garage games and finish well down, but they are the true "amateurs" in this reference.

So with this all in mind - like I said, it will diminish both the pro and amateur athletes if they are all combined at the games. The amateur and the "games" would need to be split so that each get a fair play - especially the amateurs.

For example:
Last year's prize giving for the masters. What was that ? Some boxes on a track. Here's your medal now move aside. No Dave Castro or Greg Glassman involvement - disappointing.. That would be the same as the amateur comp. So it needs to be a completely separate thing - not some token add-on.

The DII example is perfect. Yes, people do go and watch it. But it doesn't compete with NFL time either.

Luke Sirakos 03-14-2014 08:00 PM

Re: Amateur division
 
I love baseball and there are some amazing amateur baseball players out there but I am not going to watch them play. I am especially not going to watch people who can't make the games exercise. The only reason the games is interesting is the level of athlete in it. Local competitions might get a decent turnout but I am willing to bet most of that is from athlete supporters.


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:12 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
CrossFit is a registered trademark of CrossFit Inc.