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-   -   Gain Or Lose? (http://board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=88680)

Craig Bravman 07-03-2015 01:17 PM

Gain Or Lose?
 
Been following this board for along time. Today at my gym, I go to a globo, I did the underwater body fat test. I weighted in a 152.7 with a bodyfat of 12.9%. I am stuck in deciding if I should try and gain weight, or try to stay at 152 and try and lose some bf while gain muscle. I am 5'8 and use to be overweight, around 240 in high school. Ideas or suggestions please

Tim Alford 07-03-2015 01:28 PM

Re: Gain Or Lose?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig Bravman (Post 1254398)
Been following this board for along time. Today at my gym, I go to a globo, I did the underwater body fat test. I weighted in a 152.7 with a bodyfat of 12.9%. I am stuck in deciding if I should try and gain weight, or try to stay at 152 and try and lose some bf while gain muscle. I am 5'8 and use to be overweight, around 240 in high school. Ideas or suggestions please

I'll try to get in here before you get a handful of members sarcastically asking "How can we answer if we won't know your goals?"

So I'll nicely ask.....what are your goals?

At 5'8" and 152 I'd personally say add some weight. But if you'd rather be shredded, than go that route. I think if you were 5'8" and 170 lbs. your lifts would go up. It all depends on you, man.

Craig Bravman 07-03-2015 01:43 PM

Re: Gain Or Lose?
 
my goal is to get stronger. I forgot to add that when I was writing. I have some loose skin from when I was overweight. When I see it, it does make me feel fat even though I know im skinny. It is a mind game

Luke Sirakos 07-03-2015 02:06 PM

Re: Gain Or Lose?
 
You are really at a point where it could go either way. I used to try to gain when I was at higher bf percentages and I was always disappointed in the end because I had to diet for so long to get lean again. Because of that I am waiting until I get to 10% until I gain again but I would say you could do either. I wouldn't bulk past 15% personally.

Richard Colon 07-03-2015 04:20 PM

Re: Gain Or Lose?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig Bravman (Post 1254400)
my goal is to get stronger. I forgot to add that when I was writing. I have some loose skin from when I was overweight. When I see it, it does make me feel fat even though I know im skinny. It is a mind game

Don't focus on the weight. It isn't the priority at this point. If the goal is to get stronger, then get stronger. There are gymnasts and crazy barbarian/bartendaz (NY playground scene guys) that weigh probably in your 150 range that are crazy strong. There are also some parkour, breakdancer type guys (usually demonstrating gymnast strength) that are also crazy strong at around 150 lbs.

There are also some 69kg Olympic weightlifters that can put 400lbs over their heads, so clearly - strong again.

Point is, if the goal is getting strong, then that isn't based on weight. See how strong you can get.

Now, if the goal is somewhat met and you want to start getting STRONGER (you already 2 to 3x bodyweight Back Squat, DL, 2x BW C&J, Planche push-ups, etc) then maybe start looking into what it takes to hit a 600 lb BS and pull 700 from the floor. Now that, will almost certainly require gaining weight.

Also, if the goal changes to "I want to look like an NFL linebacker while being strong, or I want to look like even Rich Froning - now that is gaining weight - 60+ lbs for the former and 30+lbs for Rich looking size.

As it stands, if you are happy with your weight, then look like a chiseled 155 and get crazy strong. I have a good friend that is a bodybuilder. Insane strength for his size, weighs 150 TOPS, has muscle and the look of someone that is 170lbs easy and DLs 400+, Bar Muscle-ups for sets of 20, etc.

Dare Vodusek 07-04-2015 01:02 AM

Re: Gain Or Lose?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Colon (Post 1254406)
There are also some 69kg Olympic weightlifters that can put 400lbs over their heads, so clearly - strong again.

Its easier to gain strength with gaining weight (either fat, muscle, or both), the "hardest" way of adding strength is via neuro muscular adaptation, that takes a lot of time.

Plus there are PEDs involved in 69kg who can C&J 400lbs+

David Meverden 07-05-2015 08:01 AM

Re: Gain Or Lose?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dare Vodusek (Post 1254412)
Plus there are PEDs involved in 69kg who can C&J 400lbs+

Those top people are also insanely talented when it comes to strength and power.

For you, I vote for getting bigger and stronger. I bet 185 or so with about the same body fat would suit you pretty well. It's fun to be big and strong, more muscle will make any extra skin or remaining body fat be less important asthetically, your CrossFit performance (if you care) for any workout with weight will be a lot better, and cutting down is a lot easier when you have some serious muscle mass.

So, pick a lifting plan, lift heavy weights, eat enough to build muscle and gain weight. With a past history of being very overweight I wouldn't recommend anything crazy (no 5000 calorie a day, or anything), but err on the side of eating too much, and adjust as necessary. Probably overshoot your weight goal and then cut down later.

BTW, where are your lifts at now?

Craig Bravman 07-05-2015 10:12 AM

Re: Gain Or Lose?
 
thanks guys.
my lifts aren't great
back squat 185 x5
press 120x5
bench 135x5.... always a weak point
deadlift 250x5
pullups 9 at bw

Craig Bravman 07-05-2015 02:21 PM

Re: Gain Or Lose?
 
Any ideas on diet style... Zone with extra fat to gain, eat like a bodybuilder?

Luke Sirakos 07-05-2015 03:11 PM

Re: Gain Or Lose?
 
If you are looking to gain then I would eat at least 1g of protein per lb body weight (more is fine). From there you can adjust your carb and fat intake to reach the caloric intake you want to reach. Most people are at maintenance level calories at around 14-16 calories per pound so start around there and add calories as appropriate. Give it a couple of weeks and if you are gaining too fast cut it back, gaining too slow add more calories. Bulking is the easy part. Eat enough protein and other than that eat what you enjoy but just keep track so you know you are eating enough or too much. Also, you might want to play around with carbs/fats depending on your energy needs.

Here is a great article about what you can expect in terms of muscle gains:

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/mus...otential.html/ (WFS)

Since you don't want to put a lot of fat on I would make sure you aren't gaining faster than what you think you can add muscle wise (you will still gain fat, it is pretty much impossible not to).

Chris Mason 07-05-2015 08:30 PM

Re: Gain Or Lose?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig Bravman (Post 1254398)
Been following this board for along time. Today at my gym, I go to a globo, I did the underwater body fat test. I weighted in a 152.7 with a bodyfat of 12.9%. I am stuck in deciding if I should try and gain weight, or try to stay at 152 and try and lose some bf while gain muscle. I am 5'8 and use to be overweight, around 240 in high school. Ideas or suggestions please

What you should do depends entirely on your goals. What are they?

Craig Bravman 07-06-2015 03:33 PM

Re: Gain Or Lose?
 
I want to get stronger which is my main goal. I feel at 150 i am too skinny, so but since i have a small frame, i look bigger than I am. I would love to get to 165-175 range.

Ludovic Deguy 07-07-2015 06:28 AM

Re: Gain Or Lose?
 
It is possible to gain muscle mass and strength without putting on a lot of fat, but you must be (very) patient if you take this path.
To gain “clean” mass, a good rule of thumb is to take how many calories you eat to maintain your actual weigth, and to add something between 300-500 kcal, no more, and reassess you gains every month or so.

Ludovic Deguy 07-07-2015 06:30 AM

Re: Gain Or Lose?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig Bravman (Post 1254442)
thanks guys.
my lifts aren't great
back squat 185 x5
press 120x5
bench 135x5.... always a weak point
deadlift 250x5
pullups 9 at bw

If you think your lifts aren't great, the good news is your potential to improve them is HUGE !!!

Dare Vodusek 07-07-2015 11:35 PM

Re: Gain Or Lose?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig Bravman (Post 1254449)
Any ideas on diet style... Zone with extra fat to gain, eat like a bodybuilder?

Depends on your goals, if you just wanna get strong and dont care about adding fat, then take a look at GOMAD diet and just shove food in your mouth day after day.

But if you want slow progress, without too much extra fat, be smart and be patient. If you want to be "scientific" about it, get a body fat caliper and pay attention to how your body composition changes and adjust dieting. This is a long larning process but it will only do you good on the long run - learning to know your body is one of the best investment for the future.

And also dont get discouraged once your newbie gains stop, they will at one point, this is completely normal as adding 5lbs to the bar weekly will no longer be possible. Be aware of this and adjust programming once you get there.

Chris Mason 07-08-2015 02:51 PM

Re: Gain Or Lose?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig Bravman (Post 1254492)
I want to get stronger which is my main goal. I feel at 150 i am too skinny, so but since i have a small frame, i look bigger than I am. I would love to get to 165-175 range.

Craig, if you want to get stronger you will likely have to gain some size. Don't massively overeat considering your former weight status. Train with a strength bias and consume a mild caloric surplus.

Craig Bravman 07-08-2015 06:13 PM

Re: Gain Or Lose?
 
This is why I love this community. you all are so great and helpful. I am going to give westside barbell with crossfit a try. I have heard great stuff, plus I can focus on some of my weaknesses

Chris Mason 07-09-2015 04:02 PM

Re: Gain Or Lose?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig Bravman (Post 1254582)
This is why I love this community. you all are so great and helpful. I am going to give westside barbell with crossfit a try. I have heard great stuff, plus I can focus on some of my weaknesses

Sounds like a good plan. How will you setup your training?

Craig Bravman 07-10-2015 01:36 PM

Re: Gain Or Lose?
 
Still working on that part. Lol. With work and all I need to set up a schedule to make sure I get enough rest. Since I don't belong to a crossfit gym anymore, just moved to new location in Oxnard,Ca and lll be looking for a new place to call home.

Chris Mason 07-10-2015 02:59 PM

Re: Gain Or Lose?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig Bravman (Post 1254653)
Still working on that part. Lol. With work and all I need to set up a schedule to make sure I get enough rest. Since I don't belong to a crossfit gym anymore, just moved to new location in Oxnard,Ca and lll be looking for a new place to call home.

What do you know about Westside? If you need help on that front I can be of assistance.

Blair Robert Lowe 07-11-2015 06:14 PM

Re: Gain Or Lose?
 
69kg male lifters tend to be some short guys. Alex lee is a 69 around 5'5 but that's about as tall as 69kg lifters go.

At 5'8, somewhere between 77-85. There are some 94's that size but they are freaks like Kendrick.

That being said, it would take you awhile to fill out to 77 or 85 so there is no rush.

Eat at a slight surplus and give yourself some time and heavy training. It can be Athletic Zone, Eat2Perform, RP Bodybuilding style. Whatever. Use a mirror and a weight scale to judge if you are gaining size or chub.

It also depends on goals. Do you want to lift heavyweights or be a metcon king or bodyweight enthusiast?

Yeah, a pretty simple program could be WestSide for SkinnyBastards. You can google it.

Phil Washlow 07-13-2015 12:10 PM

Re: Gain Or Lose?
 
I definitely echo the idea of not trying to gain a ton of weight ad libitum given your prior level of body fat. I would suggest taking Chris's advice on the training and eat as much as you need to recover, focus on getting stronger primarily and let your body determine how much you eat. Still pay attention and possibly track so you aren't under eating or severely over eating but I have found that as long as my food sources are good quality my appetite naturally adjusts to meet my recovery needs for my training volume. When trying to calculate exactly what I needed I was often left hungry and more sore than necessary or I would gain unwanted body fat if I was artificially inflating my cals.

Craig Bravman 07-15-2015 02:05 PM

Re: Gain Or Lose?
 
what gyms follow a conjugate style program. I have found one or two. Also Chris, I pmed you.

You all have been a greta help

Craig Bravman 07-21-2015 01:33 PM

Re: Gain Or Lose?
 
i found your article Chris and love it. Do u suggest doing any metcons or power cleans,over head squats?

Ben Kissam 11-07-2015 12:51 PM

Re: Gain Or Lose?
 
If you were to put yourself through some type of linear progression strength training program for an extended period of time, and eat to support your goals, you'll find that 12% bodyfat looks a lot different on a muscular frame. It will also be MUCH easier to lose the bodyfat on the other side of that journey too.

Craig Bravman 04-10-2016 04:58 PM

Re: Gain Or Lose?
 
Chris
I just noticed my email to you never went thru. Please send me the program if possible still.
Thank you


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