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-   -   New to Wendler and some questions (https://board.crossfit.com/showthread.php?t=77162)

Tyler Goerlitz 08-12-2012 03:01 PM

New to Wendler and some questions
 
Hey guys

This is related to an older post. I figured I need to start doing a solid strength program to get some better gains. I have decided to give Wendler a try. My question is what about things like OHS and olympic lifts. I want to keep getting those numbers up. Can I follow the same type of format for those lifts as well or is there something different that I should be doing? Currently I can front squat 225 and clean 185, OHS 165 and snatch 135.

Thanks for the help, very appreciated!

Eric Montgomery 08-12-2012 03:11 PM

Re: New to Wendler and some questions
 
Wendler recommends doing power cleans or power snatches prior to your 5/3/1 squats or deadlifts. You could do them with 5/3/1 percentages or just work up to a heavy single or double.

I don't know if he specifically mentions OHS anywhere but I used to do them as warmups for squats when I was doing GSLP...they're going to be light enough relative to your squats that they won't tax you enough to mess up your ability to squat heavy. Something like 3 relatively heavy sets of 3 or 5 reps or working up to a new 5RM should be fine.

Your front squat will go up just fine based on the 5/3/1 squats alone (particularly if you're squatting highbar) but you could always throw in front squats as an assistance lift on squat days.

John C Corona 08-12-2012 08:08 PM

Re: New to Wendler and some questions
 
[QUOTE=Tyler Goerlitz;1085670]My question is what about things like OHS and olympic lifts. I want to keep getting those numbers up. Can I follow the same type of format for those lifts as well or is there something different that I should be doing?[/QUOTE]

Eric summed it up basically.

Ill add what I tried: I had a snatch/OHS day, where I would work up to a 85-90% snatch, then I would do 5/3/1 OHS afterwards. It was great, and got my multiple rep OHS more stable and got my shoulders stronger. I got to, what I considered, big weights overhead, for lots of reps. Wierd though, the OHS531 is all shoulder girdle, cause its not your legs that give out. So it gets scary, you have high% weights, overhead, and you have to make that choice to go for another rep (max rep set) when your shoulders are already shaking and arm bending, internally rotating, and all kinda junk. To me, it kinda got UNSAFE! Another wierd thing, my 1RM OHS got stronger than my push jerk ability. Then I had to heave snatch balance just to get under it, then do 1 more rep for my OHS. So it was a 1RM SnBal+OHS, not really 1RM OHS. Now, Im limited by my SnBal ability...and havent decided to decend into that 2nd OHS in a while.
m: sn, ohs531, accessory
t: cln(&j sometime), hbbs531, accessory
w: light metcon only (knowing my priorities for thurs was press531)
r: jerk, Press531, accessory
f: off, but sometimes would squeeze in my Deadlift531.
Sat: Sn, C&J, metcon
Sun: off
My own programming has been all over the place, and this was just a month or two, earlier this year.

Tyler Goerlitz 08-13-2012 11:50 AM

Re: New to Wendler and some questions
 
Thanks for the replies guys. I think I am going to give it a shot working on the oly stuff with the 5/3/1 template. I did have another question, yesterday was my first day working with the program and I did shoulder presses. All of the sets were pretty easy for me and on the 5+ set I was able to get 10 reps in. Is this pretty standard or are my numbers off? I downloaded an excel template for the program which is where I got my numbers from.

P.S. @ Eric, I am pretty sure you have commented on every one of my posts. I wanted to say thank you and I really value your input.

Thanks guys.

Robert Walsh 08-13-2012 12:21 PM

Re: New to Wendler and some questions
 
It all depends what you really want to focus on and get better at. If olympic lifting is your primary focus, you could just use 5/3/1 for press, squat, front, squat, and/or bench as accessory work.

For example, work snatch/cj then finish off with 531 lift. If you have alot of time to train maybe do olympic lifts in the morning and do 531+light accessory in the evening.

The main thing is to keep detailed records of your progress. Have a plan, write down all your training, and know what the hell your doing and why. We all have the tendency to lose focus and just start messing around, not keeping track of things, etc. This bascially just results in months of unproductive training and no progress.

Blair Robert Lowe 08-13-2012 01:28 PM

Re: New to Wendler and some questions
 
10 reps on the 5+ set is common or was common for me. Just you wait.

Jim has gone on record of saying that Olympic Lifting under 80-90% was useless to get anywhere. But he has also said you could use 531 % for it. Kinda depends if you just want to get some power work in or want to bump your lifts up.

Sean Dunston 08-13-2012 01:57 PM

Re: New to Wendler and some questions
 
If you are newish to intermediate, you will see good results on 5/3/1 for the power lifts.
If you also want to IMPROVE your Oly, then I'd suggest a different program - there are many online, available for free, that will help you improve those lifts better than 5/3/1 will.
wfs-
[url]http://www.mikesgym.org/programs/uploads/[/url]

Aaron Herzog 08-13-2012 02:55 PM

Re: New to Wendler and some questions
 
[QUOTE=Tyler Goerlitz;1085893]Thanks for the replies guys. I think I am going to give it a shot working on the oly stuff with the 5/3/1 template. I did have another question, yesterday was my first day working with the program and I did shoulder presses. All of the sets were pretty easy for me and on the 5+ set I was able to get 10 reps in. Is this pretty standard or are my numbers off? I downloaded an excel template for the program which is where I got my numbers from.

Thanks guys.[/QUOTE]

Tyler,
Being at 10 reps, as Blair mentioned, was pretty common for me in the beginning. I'm 8 cycles in now and I've dropped to around 7 as I've pushed over my previous 5 rep max for the standing press and my bench still is around 8-9 reps.

I believe Wendler also said its better to start lighter and keep the progress going longer, but I cant find the quote now.

As far as the Oly lifts, I've played around with incorporating them into 5/3/1 a bit and found that doing hang variants after my deadlifts allows me to move maximal weight on both the power and oly movement. I found that doing OLY lifts before cut down on my deadlift numbers.

Andrew N. Casey 08-13-2012 03:46 PM

Re: New to Wendler and some questions
 
well Wendler said OHS were a completely useless exercise so i don't think you will see them in his templates... LOL... but if you want to throw them in then I agree with Eric to do them as warmup for squats. you could also do snatches and cleans to warmup to deadlifts. but, Wendler program is to get up basic strength in the big 3 or 4 moves - squat, dead, bench, press. it is not an oly program and therefore not concerned with the oly lifts.

Blair Robert Lowe 08-13-2012 11:20 PM

Re: New to Wendler and some questions
 
Yes, but Wendler is a proponent of throwing stuff. So you'll see being supportive of power cleans/snatches.

OHS and FS are just assistance lower body exercises in 531 because of their loads. Especially when OHS is half of BS.

I remember on Rip's interview, they both agreed that doing the power lifts was a great way to warmup for BS and DL.


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