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FRANCO BELCASSIO
12-02-2003, 04:49 PM
anyone actually try any supplements to help in burniing fat and building muscle. many fat burning supplements claim to fire up your metabolism, increase thyroid output, and then there's the andro, 1-test and nor -andro, otc supplements for muscle building

has anyone used something that worked?

Kevin Roddy
12-02-2003, 06:02 PM
Stay away from metabolism supps and prohormones. They all come with negative after-effects, and you would really be better off staying away.

I personally like to stick with what has been proven to be safe and effective - Whey, a multi, and I plan to buy some Creatine soon.

Dan John
12-02-2003, 06:28 PM
I'm writing a whole newsletter about this and other topics. I will try to finish it tomorrow, but basically...

1. Eat food! Until you have had 4-12 eggs, a pound of salmon, and two salads...each day...you don't need supps.
2. Drink your ten -12 glasses of water each day.
3. Sleep waaaay too much.
4. Then, consider a. fish oil b. Mg c. K

This should be enough for most people. I will get that newsletter finished asap.

David Wood
12-02-2003, 08:03 PM
Franco:

I realize it's probably not the answer you were looking for, but I gotta agree with Kevin and Dan John.

I'm 48 years old, fairly short (5'6"), squat, and ugly . . . well, that last one is recent.

I also *used* to be pretty fat . . . as a teenager, I had nicknames like "butterball" and "Pillsbury Dough Boy". I was the proverbial "5 x 5".

I bring all this up NOT because I'm into public confession (they have talk shows for that on TV) but to try to give credibility when I tell you that, at one point or another, I've tried just about EVERYTHING (legal) that promised to build muscle and/or burn fat.

(Full disclosure: I've never tried injectible sterioids . . . I may be short, fat, and ugly, but not stupid).

I can honestly tell you that NOTHING I ever did with supplements, bodybuilding, or 30 miles of running /week has ever done as much for me as 4 days of CrossFit per week and a Paleo diet.

It didn't take all that long, either . . . 8 weeks and I saw real differences (visually) . . . 12 weeks and I had dropped 8 pounds and 2 inches off the waistline. (I now have "abs" for the first time in my life.) Six months of doing CrossFit's bloody 200 chinups / week and I have better biceps than I ever had when I was slaving away doing "preacher curls" with a "curl bar" (what an idiot I was!).

So, some of that stuff may work . . . for a while . . . at the price of your health. But you don't need it. Go to Dan John's website http://www.danjohn.org/coach and read everything he has to say about lifting, and eating. That's all you need to know, and do.

Dave

Scott Parker
12-02-2003, 09:20 PM
kevin-

just curious why creatine? i'm no expert on the substance, but from what i have heard , it's quite expensive, and have very minimal effects, and can also be misleading because, yes it will make your muscles appear larger, but it's mostly due to an increase in fluid in the cells. also, i have heard that even though there haven't been enough studies determining long-term effects, it sort of messes with your kindeys since they play an important role in fluid balance. with that info. i would think it can lead to complications with blood pressure, osmolarity, among others.

curious to hear others opinions on this...

scott

Robert Wolf
12-02-2003, 09:59 PM
Put creatine in site search for my thoughts on it. Dan Johns advice, as usual, is worth gold. Heed it and grow strong.
Robb

Steve Shafley
12-03-2003, 07:20 AM
You've got to work on the two things that will give you the most bang for your buck. That's training and diet. Once you have those in line, then the little perks might make a difference, but before, you are just kind of wasting your time and money.

On top of that, I use a decent multi, a whey protein, and EFA supplements. Note that all three basically just enhance my diet, and are not there to do anything else.

As far as creatine goes, I can only echo Robb's suggestion. Do a bit of digging before making any statements.

Alexander Karatis
12-03-2003, 07:52 AM
Franco,

My good paleo diet provides ample vitamins and minerals, as does my bottled water intake. My metabolic needs are met and exceeded by crossfit alone, so again, there´s a stimulus that will use up all those healthy nutrients I provide my body through a healthy diet.

I consume oodles of protein, and quality protein, so, I don´t need whey, creatine, Amino-acids or anything else that will give me an "edge". Do remember that most supplements are there to cater the needs of the bodybuilding industry. That means that people with already ungodly amounts of muscle mass were looking for something that would make them even bigger than that other guy that competed against them. Hence, the hyperbole on certain substances with anabolic effects.

To sum up...

1. They will not do the job for you.
2. They will not help you with your test.
3. They will cost you money.
4. They will become a meaningless dependancy.

If you´re commited, and you sound like you are, and the crossfit aura is something that intrigues you, trust me, look no further. Learn to crossfit, go hard, eat well, and hang around these forums.

BTW, I only use a multivitamin supplement, and that, with the knowledge that I´m already meeting my quotas...PLus they pack an awesome variety that even a good diet will need 2-3 days to get.

Roy
12-03-2003, 05:56 PM
I dont consider whey powder as neccessarily a bodybuilding supp. Whey is actually real food derived from dairy. Pretty much milk powder. Like the old story "little miss muffit sat on her tuffet, eating her curds and WHEY" When that little story was invented, im sure there wasnt as big of a bodybuilding supplement industry as today. I have used whey when I was bodybuiding, and had great success. HONESTLY.

I found creatine to work best as a post workout with glutamine in orange juice for 10 days on and 7 days off. Again, if you ever wanted to use supplements, I would limit them to no more than one, two, or all three of these. I found whey as a quick convenience, but since my schedule is not as busy, I just cook more meat instead. I dont use whey anymore, but if (when) I get another hectic schedule then I would not hesitate to use the stuff.

FRANCO BELCASSIO
12-03-2003, 06:25 PM
i agree most of them are just scams and use slick marketing tricks to promote all these steroid like gains. the ones that make me really laugh are those 8-12 week before and after photos that companies use of people, those pics are screaming fake all over them! there is no way the man or woman changed that much in so little time just working out 20 mins 3x a week not even breaking a sweat

Jeff Reiser
12-09-2003, 03:03 PM
A thought on Creatine; since creatine engorges your muscles with water; doesn't it do the same thing to your vital organs, such as your heart, brain, liver, etc?

Is that good?

Roy
12-09-2003, 07:12 PM
Im pretty sure that wherever Creatine Phosphate is store in your body, thats where the creatine goes. After all your ATP(adenosine triphosphate) is broken down, Creatine phosphate creates more energy reaction by sending phosphate to ADP (adenosine-diphosphate). So therefore, when we supplement creatine, its just adding to the creatine phosphate stored in our bodies, thus, more muscular work available.

So put it in simpler terms, I THINK (not 100% sure, but pretty close) that whatever parts of our body store ATP, thats where the creatine goes. However, Im not sure what would happen if one was to OVERLOAD on creatine.

Cheers

Roy

Jay Edvardz
12-09-2003, 09:31 PM
Want Creatine? Eat a pound of beef. That'll do the trick; not to mention you'll get a nice size serving of carnitine as well.

-Jay

Dale S. Jansen
12-10-2003, 08:46 AM
supplement? more p.t. add running, cycling, swimming, running with weighted pack etc.