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Jan de Jong
11-19-2003, 07:25 AM
Does dairy cause the same glucogon response as meat or fish? I'm asking because it's more practical for me to eat dairy products during the day like low fat cottage cheese then it is to eat meat.

Jan

Kevin Roddy
11-19-2003, 12:05 PM
It's my assumption that it would... though I could be wrong, as I've heard that dairy actually causes a large insulin response.

I'm sure Rob would know. He's advocated cheese as a meal replacement in the past, so I'm going to assume it's fine.

Ryan Atkins
11-19-2003, 04:29 PM
Jan,

Cordain has been quoted at least twice here saying that, although dairy has a low glycemic index, it has a high potential for insulin response. I am guessing that if something has an increased chance of raising insulin, then that same substance would be less likely to cause a glucagon response. From my understanding it's either one or the other. Despite this fact, I regularly use cream and whey protein powder in my diet during the day and don't to seem to suffer any detrimental effects (but then again, it's not my only source of protein).

The threads I looked at before posting this were-

http://www.crossfit.com/discus/messages/23/1716.html and http://www.crossfit.com/discus/messages/23/1169.html.

Hope this helps,

Ryan

Robert Wolf
11-19-2003, 06:47 PM
Guys-
This is purely speculative but I have noticed casein (cheese) causing acne and some of the other hypperinsulinemia problems but not whey. All dairy products now irritate my hands ( lots of R-arthritis in my family), even whole cream. As with all thins try to get as much variety as possible and listen to your body.
Robb

Tyler Hass
11-20-2003, 02:12 AM
Robb,
I think the arthritis in your hands might come from the hours you spend milking the bull, not from drinking the milk...

Tyler

p.s. Only at 1 in the morning can I come up with zingers like that one:-)

Dale S. Jansen
11-24-2003, 06:17 PM
as long as dairy consumed is not non-fat, insulin response minimal.

Tyler Hass
11-24-2003, 08:18 PM
Dale,
Why does it help to be a non-fat dairy source?

Also, I pay a little extra for the organic whole milk. However, it is ultra-pasteurized, so am I wasting my money? It would seem that after pasteurization that it could hardly be "organic". Any thoughts on pasteurization or organic dairy products?

Jay Edvardz
11-24-2003, 09:39 PM
I believe Dale was saying that so long as the dairy you consume is full fat versus non fat; there should be no insulin issue.

-Jay

Carrie Klumpar
11-24-2003, 10:51 PM
Interesting thread. I still need some help understanding this milk issue and how/why the fat content is related to insulin response and glucagon levels though. Nonfat, 1%, 2%, and whole milk all have the same quantities of protein and carbs and sugars. So is it that the fat in the higher-fat varieties slows the glucose absorption and raises glucagon levels? And what are the relative benefits of the different varieties? Or, to put it another way, how much "better" is each variety of milk as the fat increases? And why exactly?

I love milk (and I too find it much easier to consume milk, yogurt, cottage cheese for some of my protein, rather than yet more meat :crazy:), but I don't think I can stomach whole milk on a regular basis. So, I guess the bottom line question for me is what sort of response does 2% cause? And how different are the effects of 1% and 2%?

Thanks.

Tyler Hass
11-25-2003, 01:20 AM
Good call Jay. I missed the double negative:-)