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Jay Edvardz
10-22-2003, 04:16 PM
Currently, I am following NHE for my eating plan. The carb-ups tend to make me feel a bit crappy both mentally and physically. Also, on the low carb days, I tend to start craving carbs a bit. What are opinions/thoughts in regard to just sticking with a straight Paleo diet year round (I.E. Neanderthin)? I know Faigin and Pasquale both seem to think that carb ups are needed. Pasquale answered a question of mine saying "Going longer than 1 week low carb without a high carb meal is tempting the catabolic gods." Any thoughts or opinions in regard to this?

Robert Wolf
10-22-2003, 04:43 PM
Jay-

Give it a shot and see how you feel. This is why I recomend these 3 approaches (Zone, NHE, Paleo) pretty interchangibly.

Regarding the catabolism thing: I think it is hard to train frequently and with intensity if one is low carbing overly long. The ketogenic state is actually highly nitrogen sparing so I do not buy that scenario. I do agree that maximum athleticism will not be reached due to lack of training intensity.
Robb

Jay Edvardz
10-22-2003, 10:08 PM
Rob - Not really sure on all of this, as of yet. Maybe I will just follow a NHE/Paleo hybrid, such as the one I original planned. The results are astounding, as of now, with NHE and CrossFit. I am noticeably leaner and larger, muscle wise. I ate quite a bit of carbs tonight at my two carb meals. An extremely large quantity of whole wheat pasta for the first meal. A few sourdough pretzels. For the second, brown rice and veggies, then some oatmeal with a little fruit, then another couple sourdough pretzels. All in all, I do not feel bad at all. Not bloated, tired, or irritable. Since I eat around 6 times a day, I am only falling off the paleo wagon for around 4 meals a week out of 42. A little less than 10% - I don't think I am doing too bad :-) Anyway, at this rate, I have no doubt that I will get down to that 5-7% bodyfat range. CrossFit truly is amazing, I am a believer!

-Jay

Kevin Roddy
10-23-2003, 03:34 PM
That's my goal - I hope to get around 5-7% BF, I just don't quite know the most effective method of gettting there. For now, though, I'll just stick to paleo-ing and doing Crossfit as hard as I can, and see what happens.

Jay Edvardz
10-23-2003, 04:07 PM
Kevin - sounds like you and I are in the same boat. Where at your at, percentage wise, if you don't mind me asking?

-Jay

Scott Parker
10-23-2003, 04:21 PM
all i know is that i followed a VERY strict paleo diet for about 8 months and got to 5 - 5.5% bf, and gained like 8 lbs. now that i'm swamped with school i haven't been to the gym in about a month, and am eating way more carbs (still paleo carbs though), and have gone up to 8% bf.

in my opinion, if you are set on going to 5.5% bf, you have to be very strict. i was definately in the best shape of my life at that time, but it took a LOT of work, dedication and discipline, and was a bit of a pain in the *** to maintain!

also, i noticed that even though i was in amazing shape, and eating better that 99% of the people on the planet, i was more susceptible to getting sick, and just felt vulnerable (also, i found that i froze my butt of last winter during the ice climbing season and had to up my bf%).

another observation that i made was when i was following the WOD to the letter and hitting the gym that hard, i rarely craved carbs, and rarely ate fruit, usually getting my carbs from veggies. now that i'm a little less active i have been eating more fruit and find that i feel better now with my more "sedentary" lifestyle, and that i can concentrate a little more. i'm confident that my carb intake is WAY lower that most people though.

it seems like the strict paleo diet suited me very well when i was pushing my body physically, but dosen't seem to work well when i am pushing myself mentally.

scott

Kevin Roddy
10-23-2003, 04:46 PM
Jay - I am currently floating around 9-11% BF. Unfortunately, due to the michigan state finals (gymnastics), I am forced to take a two week break from crossfit :angry: However, I will definately get back to it afterwards. I want to get out to Home Depot this weekend and make me some paralettes - I plan on coming back to gymnastics next year and being the most awesome gymnast in the state, even if it means training year-round! LOL.

Jay Edvardz
10-23-2003, 08:20 PM
Scott - would you mind elaborating on what you consider a STRICT paleo diet? I am guessing meat, veggies, nuts, limited fruit - eat when hungry, till full - no counting calories, carbs, etc.? That's extremely interesting, how the low bodyfat level seemed to affect you negatively mentally. I should take that into consideration since I will be starting school soon ;)

Kevin - I am around 9%, right now, myself. I gotta make some paralettes as well. In regard to coming back to gymnastics next year as the best gymnast in the state - kick *** bro! I have no doubt, with your attitude, you will accomplish your goals. Don't give up. ****, I was amazing at basketball when I was younger, made the papers all the time and everything. I wanted to make it to the pros - quit playing though. Would I have made it? Who knows, but at least I could've given it my all and tried. Oh well... Best of luck to you! Please keep me updated on your progress.

-Jay

Scott Parker
10-24-2003, 03:59 AM
jay-

i would eat lean beef, fish, or chicken at every meal, usually 6 times a day with some kind of leafy green vegetable (kale, collards, spinach, chard), and mix in some other veggies like red peppers, broccoli. i would space about 175g of protein evenly between these meals. no dairy. mixed nuts, no peanuts. never added salt to anything. never ate anything out of a can. occasionally ate fruit. hell, i didn't even (still don't actually) drink beer. obviously no bread, pasta, grains or legumes as well.

i just felt that being 5% - 5.5% bf was just teetering on the edge...it was opening me up and making me more suceptible to having problems. what i'm trying to say is, it dosen't really leave you with much as far as reserves go. like i mentioned before, for what i was doing (ice climbing)it wasn't practicle. obviously, i got cold quicker. my climbing partner would make fun of me and say if we ever got stuck out somewhere i wouldn't be able to survive with such little bf! but it was crazy to be able to do 23 pull-ups, muscle-ups, and go from a 180 to a 220 bench in like 6 months! i guess it all depends what your motivation and goals are! regardless, i think this program is amazing!

have fun!

scott

Kevin Roddy
10-24-2003, 07:13 AM
Crossfit truly is amazing. When I started, my max bench was around 135 (shut up), and I worked it every week. After doing crossfit and benching a total of maybe 2 times, it's gone up to around 150-160.

Mark Mueller
10-24-2003, 07:41 AM
Hey Scot!

Great pic! But why would you want to climb that cold ice when there is so much nice rock nearby! ;)

Scott Parker
10-24-2003, 08:21 AM
mark-

i live for ice climbing! i just rock climb because that's what you do in the off season! the elements add more to it, and make it that much more challenging! i find it very similar to completing WODs! when you initially see it it looks impossible, and when other people see you doing it they think your nuts!

true, the gunks are only 1.5 hours away, and i have climbed out there a lot, but i used to live out in colorado, and still miss the mountains and the alpine climbing out there.

pray for a cold winter!

scott