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View Full Version : Mah jerk... tha dip dunna work right...


Brandon Oto
03-20-2008, 11:32 AM
My jerks are okay at lighter weights, but when it starts getting heavy, there is something very wrong with them that always sends the bar too far forward. I'm pretty sure it's the dip.

Video: first is a lesser example, second is a worse one (heavier weight), see below for comments on the third.

http://degreesofclarity.com/misc/crossfit/sliding_dips.mov wfs

I have a very vertical torso when I dip, which is fine I guess, but it's so vertical that I'm actually slightly laid back, and my knees bend enough that when I get towards the bottom my entire body is actually sliding forward. No big deal either, maybe -- but since I'm literally forward, the bar path is now forward as well, so when I catch it... you guessed it, still forward.

I thought the remedy might be to try to dip less and send my hips back a little more (less vertical), but, well, see the video... that dip looks fine in testing, but when I actually try to drive with it, my butt goes back, then returns forward before I actually jump, and the actual drive occurs from the same too-far-forward vertical torso as before. It's like a snake motion.

The only other thing I can think of is to bend the knees less, but I don't know how to do that, and I don't know what else I can do to make this right. Ideas?

Jamie J. Skibicki
03-20-2008, 12:01 PM
When I jerk, I don't jerk from the rack position, I lower my elbows so I can keep the bar over heel of my hand like I was pressing or benching. THat will also give your shoulders more mechincal advantage.

Conor Buechler
03-20-2008, 12:17 PM
Looks to me like you're rounding your back during the dip, rather than keeping the arch and closing the hip.

(note, I may be totally off base or mis-phrasing things)

Guest
03-20-2008, 12:40 PM
Imagine a vertical line that runs through your shoulder, hip and ankle. During the dip, those points all remain in that line - the only thing that moves is the knees forward - the shoulders and hips just slide in a vertical line down and back up. That forward sliding of your hips is killing your stability and power.

Sarena Kopciel
03-20-2008, 01:01 PM
With the bar on the shoulders in the rack position, take a breath and slightly shift weight to heels (feet remain flat footed--u have lifting shoes!) then dip with vertical torso-- split, and drive bar overhead. Stay there in SJ til bar is secure to show control over the bar before walking back and recovering, then lower the bar! Hope that makes sense

Brandon Oto
03-20-2008, 01:29 PM
Greg -- I get it... but HOW do I keep from sliding forward? When it gets heavy it happens on its own.

Sarena: one of the cues I tried was to keep my weight on my heels... but look at the first jerk in the second clip -- I'm so far on my heels that my toes actually come up, but then when I start to drive, I go forward again! It's like whatever I try to do just gets rid of itself when I actually start to put the weight up.

By the way, those aren't WL shoes, they're just K-Swiss casuals that look a lot like 'em :D

Sarena Kopciel
03-20-2008, 01:46 PM
Greg -- I get it... but HOW do I keep from sliding forward? When it gets heavy it happens on its own.

Sarena: one of the cues I tried was to keep my weight on my heels... but look at the first jerk in the second clip -- I'm so far on my heels that my toes actually come up, but then when I start to drive, I go forward again! It's like whatever I try to do just gets rid of itself when I actually start to put the weight up.

By the way, those aren't WL shoes, they're just K-Swiss casuals that look a lot like 'em :D

Just slightly shift weight to heels, it will be barely noticeable. STAY FLATFOOTED! You go forward since you back back so far!! You end up rocking and then cant control the weight!! trust me, I have been stuck with the same thing for a while!!

Oh and then try to beg borrow or steal and get yourself some Oly shoes!!

Andrew H. Meador
03-20-2008, 03:30 PM
Imagine a vertical line that runs through your shoulder, hip and ankle. During the dip, those points all remain in that line - the only thing that moves is the knees forward - the shoulders and hips just slide in a vertical line down and back up. That forward sliding of your hips is killing your stability and power.


That is SO much harder than it sounds. But yeah, that's exactly what you need to be doing. For the last few months I've reverted to the hips forward/shoulders back flaw and it's killing my numbers.

Lincoln Brigham
03-20-2008, 04:29 PM
Instead of going straight up and down, your hip actually draws a complete circle. First it goes back (faster than the knees go forward) and then it loops around to the front and then ends up more or less where it started. You also seem to lose the lordotic curve in your back right from the git go.

Ryan Whitenack
03-20-2008, 11:44 PM
I agree with what Lincoln just said. In the second clip, first lift, the initial thing that went through my mind was "circular"--I would have a hard time explaining that, but their seemed to be just enough "circular motion" to remove the efficiency of your movement. I am guessing that is also what Greg was talking about.

Why do you use that rack position? I used to use it and I quite liked it. I have recently changed to bringing the elbows more down, but to be honest it hasn't paid off much if at all. For some reason if feels more comfortable and powerful to me.

Brandon Oto
03-21-2008, 05:22 AM
Instead of going straight up and down, your hip actually draws a complete circle. First it goes back (faster than the knees go forward) and then it loops around to the front and then ends up more or less where it started. You also seem to lose the lordotic curve in your back right from the git go.

Howww do I fix ittttt...

Ryan, I don't really feel secure with my elbows much lower.

Jake Oleander
03-21-2008, 08:03 AM
hmmm....
looks like you don't even have that much weight on the bar. and youre snatching 160lbs? have you tried to squat jerk? maybe that would work better for you. very strange dip movement indeed. maybe youre just over-thinking it...
-maybe just start doing heavy push presses as part of your routine, until the dip becomes more natural.

Brandon Oto
03-22-2008, 03:41 PM
I think I do the same thing on push presses.

Adam Noble
03-22-2008, 05:02 PM
This looks like an example of muted hip function. Your pelvis is chasing your femur on the drive. Pelvis needs to be in anterior rotation (butt back). This is best viewed in the shots in the red tank top. Drive through your heels too. If you go frame by frame, the muted hip function is also causing you to rock forward, so the drive is coming from the balls of your feet. Practice dipping with your back against a wall to get the feeling of a vertical drive. Check out the Jan 2003 CFJ for a good look at MHF.

Lincoln Brigham
03-23-2008, 12:45 PM
The usual drill to fix this is to practice the dip and drive against a wall. Hips and upper back should remain in contact with the wall. The dip should be shallow.

Frederic Giraud
03-23-2008, 01:50 PM
The usual drill to fix this is to practice the dip and drive against a wall. Hips and upper back should remain in contact with the wall. The dip should be shallow.

Was about to say exactly the same, couple months ago a video on the main page showed this drill, seems exactly what is needed in your case

Good luck and keep it up

Robert Callahan
03-25-2008, 07:10 PM
You know im not a great coach or anything but from the looks of that video you are thinking way to much about what you are doing. You need to relax and not over analyze the lift while your doing it. The clip where you try two or three times do do a push jerk but fail each time it never looks like you actually commit to the lift. In all of the failed lifts you do not drive yourself under the bar at all. Yeah the dip may need little tweaks but it looked like enough still to get under the bar in those lifts if you just commit to it. Like i said im not a great coach or lifter by any means, just watched and thought maybe my input would help cause no one else had said it :) Good Luck and hope that helps a little :)

-Robert