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Brandon Oto
03-10-2008, 01:08 PM
Can anyone have a look -- and confirm/deny that the only thing meaningfully wrong is me jumping ten feet back every time? By doing so I'm moving away from the bar on the third pull, and I'm being forced to receive it on my toes, and probably some other stuff, but I'm pretty sure that's the original cause. Bar's light (one of the warmup sets from my Big 21 today) so it works but obviously it causes problems later.

Snatch followed by four hang snatches (I'm doing some hangs because my back's having some issues).

http://degreesofclarity.com/misc/crossfit/snatches_3-10-08_jumping_back.mov wfs

Alexander Kornishev
03-10-2008, 01:13 PM
it is very hard to see anything from this angle, if you can position the camera higher and 45 deg to your right or left...

Leonid Soubbotine
03-10-2008, 03:54 PM
There's really nothing wrong with jumping back a couple inches.
However this angle makes it impossible to see why you're on your toes.

Arden Cogar Jr.
03-10-2008, 06:01 PM
Brandon,
You may want to keep the bar closer to your body as you leave the power position - or keep the bar tracking in more of a straight line - it seems to gravitate forward once it gets past your navel; you seem to have to pull it back and in doing so makes you're whole body jump backward to catch it. We wrote about this earlier (in a different thread), I don't think you're getting your shoulders out of the way (the ellipitcal motion of up as high as you can go, then pulling the shoulders back as you're starting to pull under the bar) quick enough. I know, it's like the pot calling the kettle black, but I think that would solve your jumping backward a bit.

I agree with the others, hard to tell from this angle.

Where's the socks? Gotta have them. I wish I had me some of them today. Tore the crap out of my shins, snatching, cleaning, then deadlifting.

All the best,
ARden

Brandon Oto
03-10-2008, 06:10 PM
Brandon,
You may want to keep the bar closer to your body as you leave the power position - or keep the bar tracking in more of a straight line - it seems to gravitate forward once it gets past your navel; you seem to have to pull it back and in doing so makes you're whole body jump backward to catch it.

Well, my thought was that the bar's in the right place, I'm just jumping back so I'm moving away from it and creating that space. Check it out -- the bar itself is moving STRAIGHT up throughout the first and second pull, and since it's in the right path to begin with, the difference seems to come from my backward movement. (The bar moves backwards when I catch it and stand, but that's just me stabilizing it back into its groove by brute force.)

Where's the socks? Gotta have them. I wish I had me some of them today. Tore the crap out of my shins, snatching, cleaning, then deadlifting.

No socks this time, but I am snatching in K-Swiss casual shoes (they say "HMMM..." on the side, if it's not legible :D). I don't have weightlifting shoes but these work okay :highfive:

Zach Forrest
03-11-2008, 01:48 AM
Yeah, we all know I'm no oly-lift expert...but I've seen this with one of my guys, so I'll share what had fixed it for him.

His shoulders weren't pulling at the right time, or from the right position. Now, I can't see your shoulders at all from this angle, but from what I CAN see is that you actually seem to jump with the weight and float down (I dunno, you did say the bar was light). Because of that, you aren't pulling with your shoulders as much, which is not only the last transferance of power to the bar...but also the pull that guides the bar into the catch. From what I CAN see, this looks to be constant during the hang snatches as well. Maybe you are pulling from a rounded shoulder into your ear instead of neutral shoulder into your ear, which was also a problem with my guy.

I don't know, it's a bad angle. All I know is that when we addressed this with him here, his shrug fixed his catch.

I'm learning here as well, so please tell me if I'm completely off the range here. :shrug:

Arden Cogar Jr.
03-11-2008, 06:34 AM
Brandon,
After watching it again, you're right. You are creating the space by jumping backward.

bring back the ski socks. ;)

All the best,
Arden

Well, my thought was that the bar's in the right place, I'm just jumping back so I'm moving away from it and creating that space. Check it out -- the bar itself is moving STRAIGHT up throughout the first and second pull, and since it's in the right path to begin with, the difference seems to come from my backward movement. (The bar moves backwards when I catch it and stand, but that's just me stabilizing it back into its groove by brute force.)



No socks this time, but I am snatching in K-Swiss casual shoes (they say "HMMM..." on the side, if it's not legible :D). I don't have weightlifting shoes but these work okay :highfive:

Alan Kalbarczyk
03-12-2008, 11:37 AM
It looks like your almost jumping flat footed wich will lead me to believe your
not at full extension.
When I focused on your hips they are not fully open still a very slight closer
to them.
Dont rock back onto your heels to start the lift it should be a slight closing
of the hips wich will lower the bar slightly then explode.
Watch your feet as you start, ever so slightly you rock back onto your
heels.
You can really see it on the 3rd lift.

Watch what the bar does as you rock back and it lowers onto your thighs.
The rock creates a sitting back motion then you rock forward. The bar
actually makes a U shape at the bottom before its ascent.

Your toes rocking back have already started the bar in that direction before
your hips have had a chance to engage and full extend there for the hop.

Fix the rocking and it will allow for a more aggressive finish (stomp those feet).

Arden Cogar Jr.
03-12-2008, 12:10 PM
Can somone tell me, and everyone else, what it means to have "open" hips? And "Closed" hips for that matter. I'm not quite grasping the concept.

All the best,
Arden

Brandon Oto
03-12-2008, 12:20 PM
Open is extended. Closed is flexed.

Still trying to figure out what you mean, Alan.

It took a few reps to sort these out today, but once I did I felt really good about them. Focus was: reaching FULL extension with a layback, pulling the shoulders back and the bar in to me, and not jumping backwards.

Extension looks good, I could lay back a bit more, bar is slightly out but only like half an inch, and I was jumping back occasionally but no more than .5-1 inch.

Cleans felt good too... jerks are a mess but I'll get them.

Socks back by popular demand.

http://degreesofclarity.com/misc/crossfit/snatches_3-12-08.mov wfs

Alan Kalbarczyk
03-12-2008, 12:23 PM
Can somone tell me, and everyone else, what it means to have "open" hips? And "Closed" hips for that matter. I'm not quite grasping the concept.

All the best,
Arden

Standing straight up and down hips open
Squating position hips closed
The movement in the hips when doing squats,cleans,snatches

Arden Cogar Jr.
03-12-2008, 12:32 PM
Standing straight up and down hips open
Squating position hips closed
The movement in the hips when doing squats,cleans,snatches

Thanks Alan and Brandon,
I get it.

All the best,
Arden

Alan Kalbarczyk
03-12-2008, 12:35 PM
Just looked at the second vid Completely different no rocking no squating at the start.

When you were to be at full extension your hips were slightly closed.

I hope that clears things up.

But you do see that slight rock onto your heels in the first vid?