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Bryan Ragon
01-14-2008, 11:22 PM
I was hoping to get some critique on my C2 rowing form. I created a playlist with three videos, one with a damper of 4.5, 8, and 10. I'm trying to improve my 500 M time when it's mixed into a WoD.

Stand-alone, my fastest 500M is about 1:35. In a multi-round WoD, I usually row about a 1:50-1:55. I'm 5'8" and 160 lbs, if that make any difference, lol.

Thanks in advance, anyone! :-D

Playlist
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=77AFVb8eE00&feature=PlayList&p=4A6126A25EE7A2D6&index=2&playnext=3&playnext_from=PL) (WFS)

Brandon Oto
01-15-2008, 05:01 AM
On the recovery, ARMS first, then BACK, and only then bend the legs. The usual rule of thumb is not to bend the legs until the hands have passed them.

Is 10 really your best dampener setting? Have you experimented?

I'd try leaning forward at your catch more, and not scooting the seat quite so far forward. Stop with your shins perpendicular to the ground or thereabouts.

Bryan Ragon
01-15-2008, 11:43 AM
On the recovery, ARMS first, then BACK, and only then bend the legs. The usual rule of thumb is not to bend the legs until the hands have passed them.

Is 10 really your best dampener setting? Have you experimented?

I'd try leaning forward at your catch more, and not scooting the seat quite so far forward. Stop with your shins perpendicular to the ground or thereabouts.

K... I thought I was doing enough of "arms first" because I believe I'm getting the handle back over my knees before they bend so much that the handle has to go "up and over" my knees. To my eye it looks like the handle is moving in a straight line. But I'll work on it even more.

No, I haven't really experimented that much. But I usually row at the 4.5 setting. How do you recommend that I experiment? Should I set the display to watts and then try to go for the most sustained wattage that I can? Or is it best to actually row the 500 and just look at time?

I'll try leaning forward more on the recovery as well. Thanks,
Bryan

Brandon Oto
01-15-2008, 11:53 AM
K... I thought I was doing enough of "arms first" because I believe I'm getting the handle back over my knees before they bend so much that the handle has to go "up and over" my knees. To my eye it looks like the handle is moving in a straight line. But I'll work on it even more.


You are, but you're right on the borderline. Moreover, keeping the right order in your stroke on the recovery (never mind the knees) ensures that you set up the next pull with the right position. Scooting the seat early tends to lead to insufficient torso lean -- like you're doing.


No, I haven't really experimented that much. But I usually row at the 4.5 setting. How do you recommend that I experiment? Should I set the display to watts and then try to go for the most sustained wattage that I can? Or is it best to actually row the 500 and just look at time?


I just sort of tried stuff until I found my best 500 time, but there's a video on the Exercises page about using intervals to find your best setting. Check it out.

Don't just see what gives you the fastest split, because that's not necessarily something you can maintain (though for a 500 it might be). The third variable is stroke rate, of course, so play with that too.

Ewen Roth
01-15-2008, 01:55 PM
Bryan,

If you look at your damper 8 video at 0:22, you'll see what Brandon was talking about.
Your arms aren't straight, knees bent, still leaning back and there's a slight curve in the chain: your hands have deviated from the straight line you followed when pulling.

Try to think of a full stroke sequence as legs>-back>-arms>-arms<-back<, instead of legs>-back>-arms> only. When your upper body is in the recovery position (which shouldn't change much by the time you start your next stroke), ie arms straight ahead, torso slightly forward, you can start bending your knees. This might sound a bit extreme but I find it useful.

Jeff Sparrow
01-19-2008, 10:37 PM
Bryan,

All solid advice so far. It is true that leaning forward sooner is key. Your shoulders should be well in front of your hips BEFORE your knees come up. Try some arms and back only rowing, or rowing with a pause at arms extended and body forward. These drills will make that position feel more natural.

Another thing to think about is the ratio of drive to recovery. You're at about 1:1. Aim for 1:2. In other words, regardless of the stroke rating, try to imagine one full stroke as a steady 3-count, in which 1 is the drive and 2 & 3 make up the recovery. Early forward body angle will help achieve this.

Overall, not too bad at all. Your power application on the drive looks real good. Just remember "patience" on the recovery, and you should notice your splits dropping, especially on pieces 500m and up.

Bryan Ragon
01-19-2008, 11:42 PM
Bryan,

All solid advice so far. It is true that leaning forward sooner is key. Your shoulders should be well in front of your hips BEFORE your knees come up. Try some arms and back only rowing, or rowing with a pause at arms extended and body forward. These drills will make that position feel more natural.

Another thing to think about is the ratio of drive to recovery. You're at about 1:1. Aim for 1:2. In other words, regardless of the stroke rating, try to imagine one full stroke as a steady 3-count, in which 1 is the drive and 2 & 3 make up the recovery. Early forward body angle will help achieve this.

Overall, not too bad at all. Your power application on the drive looks real good. Just remember "patience" on the recovery, and you should notice your splits dropping, especially on pieces 500m and up.

Thanks to everyone for the advice on this. Ironically, after posting this video, i ended up sub'ing a 5k row for the 5k run last week (I think it was cold & rainy that day).

I kept my damper at 4.5. I tried to really concentrate on what everyone has said about extending my arms fully and bending my hips before even starting to move my knees. I also brought my SPM from about 30-34 down to about 24-25. And focusing on the 2-1 ratio. My pulls were much more explosive, and I gave myself that 2 count breather. Ended up with 19:39 (1:58 pace), so I was happy with the effort.

I'm going to keep working on it and see what happens to my 500 & 2k. Thanks again to everyone!!

Bryan

:thanx::D:thanx:

Tom Rawls
01-20-2008, 11:21 AM
Bryan--

You look to me as though you are relying heavily on your upper body. To my eye this was most apparent in the selection at damper 4.5, where the layback becomes extreme. Your legs should provide most of the power.

You might see what happens if you reduce the anchor-hauling back action and focus on the leg drive. It may take some time to make the adjustment, but it could provide dividends, especially on longer rows.

Some Canadian ergers use lots of layback and I know of one serious anchor-hauler who is fast as hell, so your style is not "wrong," but you might want to see how a slightly more textbook approach works for you.

Thomas R. Stegelmann
01-20-2008, 12:05 PM
Hiho,

you movement looks already solid compared to many people in my gym. As said, focus on pushing hard with your legs and relax your shoulders and arms. I see there much tension. Relax on the recover - this results in usually in less strokes per minute, but you should survive much longer. Besides - row, row, row and vomit ;)

Thomas

Bryan Ragon
01-20-2008, 07:08 PM
Lynne,
My apologies, first. As you can tell from my post count, I haven't posted on here very much at all. After seeing your edit to my post above, I looked over the site rules and saw that you need to specify if a link is work/family safe.
While it could be argued that the subject matter and work family safeness of the link would be a given if the rest of the post was read, I can appreciate the desire to have a explicit SFW/F notation on each link, and you can be certain I will do so in the future.
Is it possible for "nromal users" to edit their own posts? I was going to do so in order to add the aforementioned SFW/F tag. But no where can I find the option for editing a post. And I did spend a good ten minutes looking in different place (all over the discussion page and in the user cp).
Lastly, did you try to get ahold of me through other means? I ask because the comment added to my post seems quite irritated. I just wanted to assure you that if you did try to contact me to let me know of the need for an explicit statement, I wasn't ignoring you. I honestly didn't receive any such communique.

Thank you for brining this requirement to my attention, and again I apologize,
Bryan

:oops0000: