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Cory Osborne
11-23-2007, 12:29 PM
Check out my Clean (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-y0jCm-sJAY). Hopefully it's 'clean' enough. Thanks!

Joe Cavazos
11-23-2007, 02:34 PM
The first thing I'd fix is the fact that the bar is way out in front of you during the clean. Keep the bar close to your body, since when the weight gets heavy you won't be able to hold anything out in front of you.

Jacob Rowell
11-23-2007, 04:01 PM
Pull it slow/controlled off the floor, explode right at or just above the knees. Drag it up your thighs and keep it close to your body. That's all I've got!

Ryan Whitenack
11-23-2007, 04:45 PM
Good job with the...
1. basic jumping and landing
2. Foot extension on the first-second pull
3. arms coming up and out
4. starting position (scapula over bar)

Needs...
1. Remember you want to pull the bar off the floor only as far as you have to. It looks as if you are pulling to high. The exercise demos on the CF main site do a good job demonstrating this.
2. Hip, hips, hips. In the video you are at a weight not requiring a ton of hip drive, but as you move up more will be needed
3. Get your weight back on your heels after you catch
4. Control the weight- it looks like you lose some control at the top of the upward pull

Cory Osborne
11-27-2007, 03:03 PM
Thanks for the pointers, and good explanation. Thought it was pretty good at first, but now I see all the mistakes. I'll correct those and see what I come up with...

Brandon Oto
11-27-2007, 04:07 PM
1. Remember you want to pull the bar off the floor only as far as you have to. It looks as if you are pulling to high. The exercise demos on the CF main site do a good job demonstrating this.l

This is not right. What are you going to do -- explode just enough to get under it?

The whole point is to exert maximal power. If the weight's going through the roof it just means you're capable of lifting more. The only thing wrong with this is if it's smooshing you when it lands on your shoulders, but you should be meeting the bar and then sinking anyway -- not finding the ground and waiting, wincing, until it lands on you.

Ryan Whitenack
11-27-2007, 05:52 PM
Brandon,

I agree with the fact that you want a violent and explosive pull, but remember an essential part of the clean is pulling yourself back under. Actually, if you're pulling the weight "through the roof" it means you are not pulling yourself under the bar. I have no exact reference point for where that pull under should begin, but looking at videos and pics off of the main site, and Burgeners website I would say the point would be somewhere just below the chest. The link below is for a snatch, but I think it fulfills the point.
http://www.mikesgym.org/gallery/galleryDisplay.php?show=image&imageID=164

My training, though not vast, has been that you want to be explosive in the pull to the point that you can extend your hips to their maximum positive potential, and then start the pull under. You can exert maximal power by extending and then pulling yourself back under, thus keeping the bar lower.

I think a good point to consider is that when doing 95# it is okay to pull too high, but when you are doing 400# there is only so far you can pull that monster off the ground until you have to pull yourself under it. So, yes, I think you should only pull as high as the point that your hips have fired and you can pull yourself under. However, I have much learning to do. Thanks for making me think.

Guest
11-27-2007, 07:42 PM
This is not right. What are you going to do -- explode just enough to get under it?

The whole point is to exert maximal power. If the weight's going through the roof it just means you're capable of lifting more. The only thing wrong with this is if it's smooshing you when it lands on your shoulders, but you should be meeting the bar and then sinking anyway -- not finding the ground and waiting, wincing, until it lands on you.

This actually is right in a sense. Until maximal loads are being cleaned the pull needs to be controlled according to the desired receiving depth. Cory is clearly strong enough to simply stand up and upright row that weight to his shoulders. In order to perform a technically sound clean with such a sub-maximal load, then, he does in fact need to reduce the force he applies to the bar in the second pull, while attempting to maintain as much speed as possible. The third pull must also be aggressive in order for him to get farther under the bar; however, the lighter the bar is, the higher it will travel under the force of the third pull, so even that must be controlled with very light weights.

So if he's attempting to clean with technical precision light weights, he cannot apply maximal power at any point. If he applies maximal power to all lifts, the height at which the bar is received will be determined solely by the mass of the barbell relative to him; in the case of 95 lbs, this would produce a muscle clean, which is not what he's after.

Ryan - the third pull (pull under the bar) begins at the moment the body reaches maximal extension while in contact with the platform--the height of the bar itself is irrelevant.

Lincoln Brigham
11-28-2007, 02:26 AM
This is why many top lifters will perform doubles in training. The first of the two reps is a power clean or a power snatch, which allows the lifter to practice applying maximal power. The second rep, performed in an ever so slightly more fatigued state, is a squat clean or squat snatch for the purpose of practicing at competition velocities, timings, and body positions.

With sub-maximal weights a lifter can choose to work on max power or competition-style technique, but not both during the same lift. Bear in mind that lighter weights allow for a higher maximum velocity on the second pull and a slower maximum downward velocity of the lifter's body for the pull under. With a weightless bar, that max downward acceleration of the lifter's body taps out as the same as the acceleration of gravity - ~10 meters per second per second. Falling under the bar. Only with a heavy weight in the lifter's hands to pull against can that rate of downward accleration exceed that of gravity. If the lifter explodes with max power and velocity on a sub-max weight during the second pull, they simply won't be able get into the squat position before the bar gets higher than the bottom of the squat position.

Another way of thinking about all this: A power clean or a power snatch is usually the result of any second pull with a velocity that exceeds ~2 meters per second. Most competition lifts (squat lifts) have a max velocity of just under 2 meters per second. So to practice a squat clean or a squat snatch the second pull must finish at about 1.9-2.0 meters per second, no higher. Don't cut the pull short; stand up all the way tall but ease back on the velocity just a tad. Then wedge yourself under the bar as fast as possible.

Coach Burgener likes to say that a squat clean is a failed power clean. What this means in a more technical way is that a squat clean is an attempted power clean with insufficient velocity.

Brandon Oto
11-28-2007, 03:43 AM
I don't know. Don't you think intentionally softening the pull with sub-max weights will just lead to neural confusion when you try to "scale it up" to go heavier? Who needs something else to think about? It doesn't seem like catching high is technically wrong as long as that's actually where the bar ended up and you didn't bend your arms until your pull was finished (if it moves after that, so what; it wouldn't have with more weight, and your motion RELATIVE to the bar is the same either way).

Guest
11-28-2007, 10:37 AM
I don't know. Don't you think intentionally softening the pull with sub-max weights will just lead to neural confusion when you try to "scale it up" to go heavier?

By that logic, you'd have to apply maximal force to every movement you ever did. Like picking your nose. In the EMS industry, we used to call that digital trauma.

The neurological hierarchy is movement, then the speed, then force. And besides, you CANNOT perform certain lifts with certain weights with maximal efforts. So the only option would be to always attempt maximal loads, which obviously won't work within the context of a CF workout, and even eliminates the possibility of any multiple rep work.

Saul Jimenez
12-20-2007, 02:28 PM
I don't know. Don't you think intentionally softening the pull with sub-max weights will just lead to neural confusion when you try to "scale it up" to go heavier?

Softening the pull seems counter-intuitive but it works. True, there are assistance exercises, but I have found it difficult to improve my lifting without using weights that are manageable (mentally and physically). Besides, learning to modulate the pull builds coordination and a more complete kinesthetic awareness of the clean and snatch. To answer your question specifically, at least in my case, there is no neural confusion, when I pick up a max load, I know I am going to have to pull like hell. When I don't practice enough with lighter loads, I tend to pull too much using bent arms which seems to be the default way of dealing with max loads and little formal practice.

In general, when teaching movement/skills, there is spectrum of context starting at practice moving to performance. It is always better to teach a skill closer to the practice side of the spectrum. In our case, weightlifting, keeping the weights light (among other things) allows the majority of people to be able to focus on learning the skill.