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Donald Woodson
10-12-2004, 04:45 AM
I saw a commercial on Discovery channel last night, for a TV show about back pain. I thought some of you might be interested.
One of the excerpts from the show had a Dr. saying something about millions of back surgeries have been performed with very few of them being successful. (Duh) They're also going to go over alternative remedies/therapies. Probably just going to rehash what Dave Werner has already told us about strength conditioning (Thank you very, very much Dave).
It's supposed to be on tonight at 10 eastern/9 central, and I guess 6 pacific (?) for those interested.

Roger Harrell
10-12-2004, 07:32 AM
Too true. A guy I train (53 yr old gymnast, started at 47) at some point developed some nerve issues in his back. Docs suggested surgery, and also told him continuing gymnastics was out of the question. He talked with several other docs, and other informed individuals to discover the low success rate of back surgeries and opted to not go that way. He's just about fully recovered now, and yes, still doing gymnastics. This is not to say don't listen to docs, just make sure you are fully informed from multiple sources before you commit to any cutting.

Michael Keller
10-12-2004, 09:33 AM
They told me the same thing, saying surgery was my only option, though the doc did tell me it was a "50% chance it would make it better, 50% chance it would make it worse". Thankfully, I did not do the surgery and it gets better all the time. I think the DL's I have been doing for 3 weeks now at the urging of Dave, are helping.

John Dryden
10-12-2004, 09:39 AM
All due respect to Dave Werner, but strength conditioning is not the key to back pain relief.
Example: Bob Paris, a Mr. Universe winner, has terrible, debilitating back pain, along with a powerful back and a great 6-pack.
Read Dr. Sarnos methods for the REAL cure for back pain.

Donald Woodson
10-12-2004, 10:05 AM
All in all I think though that there are some cases of back pain that would warrant back surgery. For instance I think Dave said he had "three ruptured discs", whereas I only have one "degenerated disc". A chiropractor managed to get me standing errect again to where I could eventually start doing hyperextensions and live life somewhat normally. I doubt that that would've been possible with Daves ruptured discs. (I don't even know if a ruptured disc CAN heal itself).
Dave has made me realize that I've been a wussy with my back. If he can do DL's with his back and make improvements, me and my back should be able to live together with a little coaxing on my part.
I'm doing the DL's, but I'm still nowhere near my body weight. My back is a little sore now sometimes, but that's just muscle soreness, which is good.

Donald Woodson
10-12-2004, 11:06 AM
John, I just looked up Dr Sarno, and found this:
http://www.optimalhealthsecrets.com/aa5___dr__john_sarno_s_theory_of_back_pain.h tm (http://www.optimalhealthsecrets.com/aa5___dr__john_sarno_s_theory_of_back_pain.htm)
I had to stop reading when I saw that he suggests that most back pain is caused by "repressed rage".
Sounds like he suggested to someone that his back pain was all in his mind, and got popped across the jaw for it (hence the repressed rage theory).

Brian Hand
10-12-2004, 11:34 AM
It'a a shame Sarno can't make his case without making ridiculous statements. He's right that an awful lot of back pain is psychsomatic. This is not an original idea, but he deserves some credit for calling attention to it. It is so ludicrous to suggest that the lion's share of back pain is psychosomatic that people are forced to write him off.

There are certainly instances where back surgery is necessary, every chiropractor I know will acknowledge that. Orthopods are just overselling back surgery, and it is shameful. The AMA has acknowledged this publicly in their Journal and this is not an industry that makes such statements lightly.

Ask anyone who has had back surgery and you will be convinced that you want to exhaust all other options before resorting to surgery. There was a time when any orthopod would tell you that, too.

Donald Woodson
10-12-2004, 11:59 AM
When I went to the doctor with ny back pain, they x-rayed it, and could find "nothing". All they did was take me off of work, drug me up, and tell me the only thing they could do was fuse my spine.
So when I went to a Chiropractor, he also x-rayed me, and found a subluxation (?) in one vertabrae, and also noticed a missing bone spur that I'd known about since childhood. Now why didn't the "pros" at the hospital notice that?
All said and done, the only explanation I can come up with is that Brian is right. They just wanted my insurance money, to hell with my well being.
And they want tort reform on medical malpractice lawsuits?
To me, that is not only negligent, but also malicious.

Ron Nelson
10-13-2004, 12:05 PM
As an attorney, all I can say is: Well said Donald!!
But, as I also have a brother who underwent back surgery 2 years ago, I can say it does work in some cases. His was just to remove a portion of a disc that was herniated. Been fine ever since.
On the other hand, my father in law has not stood up straight since 1997 due to back problems (herniated discs). His orthopod suggested cortisone shots. Worked for about 3 weeks at a time. Also took Vioxx (yikes!) for about 2 years. Now he's retired and can't get anyone to treat the problem.
The lesson I learned from all this: The back is as much a mystery to the docs as it is to us!

John Dryden
10-18-2004, 12:40 AM
Donald

"Repressed Rage" and the mind-body interaction is pretty hard for the layman to get his head around, but is the source of many illnesses.
Can stress trigger or aggravate diabetes, lupus, and MS?
Yes, according to the Merck manual (1997,p. 390).
Why not back pain, sciatica, TMJ, fibromyalgia, headaches, etc.?
It is not 'all in your head'; it is real pain caused by the mind-body interaction. However, it can be beat.
I did it, and so can you IF you can understand a little psychiatry.

If not, modern medicine is powerless to help you.